Why no questions about Frazier not giving Ali a rematch ?

To be honest outside of Ali, Frazier's reign was completely shite! And im a massive frazier fan. Just being honest.

 

Convincing and dominant ? Arthur Mercante the referee and judge, had it 8-6-1 If you think Frazier dominated Ali ,no wonder they strung you up by your heels!

Frazier fought two nobodies after this ,then foguht Foreman to avoid Ali, and got bounced like a ball.

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Yes,,,,,
Joe's reign wil not go down in history as a great one, and a border-line good one.

But didn't he win 'The Fight of the Century'

And he had Ali screaming 'MaMa' in the 11th and 15th Rounds.

Does anybody really believe, that Ali wanted a re-match within 6 to 9 months.

 

No one has claimed he did, not even Ali. If you actually read peoples' posts your own would perhaps make a bit more sense.

 

McVey,

The Championship Rounds 11 thru 15,,,,,
Just how many of those did Ali win against 5' 11" 205 lb. 'Little Joe'

Just what does that mean, Referee Arthur Mercante had it 8-6-1 Frazier.
Judge Bill Recht had it 11-4-0 Frazier

Of course every New York sports writer had it for Frazier, except for Art Rust Jr. who was a shill for Ali.

 

It means it was a close fight and I remember it very well.
Frazier got Ali before he could shake of the ring rust of inactivity, Ali DOMINATED the return and stopped Frazier in their last fight.FACT
FRazier had a weight advantage in 22 of his 32 fights so don't pull that one on me.

 

Sam McVey,

You don't really think Joe Frazier was a big heavyweight do you?
It was a close fight for 10 rounds, thats it.

And read Arthur Mercante's book, as he stated, 2 rounds that he gave Ali he could have easily scored even, but everyone scoring that fight was discouraged by scoring any even rounds by the New York State Boxing Commission.
So that makes Mercante's scoring 8-4-3.

Who really cares, it was a 'great fight' and Joe won.

But don't go into that inactivity stuff. Didn't Ali look magnificent in the Quarry fight
earlier.

 

Frazier fought a couple of bums. We both agree on that.
He took on two easy marks instead of legit contenders. That's not in dispute.
But you are arguing that he did so as an avoidance of a rematch with Ali in particular.
Even when Frazier turns around and fights George Foreman you consider it ducking Ali, so the fact that Stander and Daniels were bums is not the issue.

Frazier had already beaten Ali, in the biggest fight ever made, and a rematch was potentially an even bigger fight and so was burdened with all the usual difficulties, it wasn't the kind of fight anyone could promote. Both Ali and Frazier were demanding unprecedented sums. It should have happened in 1972, but it didn't. You conveniently put the whole blame on Frazier. Without much to back it up, except that Ali was shouting his mouth off.

Foreman didn't give Ali a shot until 20 months into his reign either.
Many people considered Frazier's loss to Foreman a fluke or something funny with Joe that night, so, yes, it would have drawn.

It was a tough fight. Frazier won the fight fair and square, and he was completely within his rights to let Ali earn his shot by racking up a string of wins. And that's foolishly disregarding the whole point about the logistics of getting the promotion together and terms and guarantees agreed. All this stuff about fighters deserving immediate rematches is fantasy-land stuff, unless the decision was highly controversial - which it wasn't. And, in fact, Ali did himself no favours by claiming that he was robbed.

It's not unusual for the biggest fights to be delayed due to money issues. A major part of strategy to maximize a fight financially is to delay it, also there are difficulties that force a delay. The time period isn't even that much.

Also, the "Ali put Frazier in hospital" thing is a myth. Frazier was actually NOT in hospital in the week following the fight, but he was out here, there and everywhere making personal appearances, signing autographs, and wherever he went the phones were ringing. He was admitted to hospital eight days after the fight, with very high blood pressure. Sheer exhaustion. He just needed a rest. It wasn't just the fight, it was his ridiculous schedule on top of it. And maybe he just had genetic problem with his blood pressure (hardly something to credit Ali with).

It's really being used as a cheap shot to try to make out Ali somehow "won" the fight, or beat Frazier up.

 

He's only being "outshone" if you ignore the lasting significance of Frazier's win over Ali.
Frazier was undefeated.
Ali had one loss - to Frazier.
Frazier could afford to let Ali try his damnedest to outshine him. It was 1-0 to Joe.

 

Well written Unforgiven,

It should be mentioned, that Joe Frazier wanted to spend time with his family in 1971, after the fight.
He had been boxing non-stop since 1962, and in his own words, 'After 10-years,
I thnik I'm entitled to a little vacation'

 

The second fight was quite close too. 6-5-1, 7-4-1, and 8-4.

You use ring rust and activity as an excuse for Ali, but Frazier was just Foreman's leftovers when Ali beat him, so it works both ways.

All three fights were tough, gruelling and close. I think it's pretty much established as one of sport's truisms that "Ali and Frazier" is synonymous with fierce, tough, two-dided competition. They gave each other hell, and brought out the best in each other.

 

That was not really an answer to the question.

 

Frazier's apologists like to use this line as well when it's convenient, i e "Frazier was never the same after FOTC, thus his losses to Foreman and Ali doesn't really count for much". But I for one am quite content to declare that as rubbish. Thereby: Ali won two out of three while being further from his prime on all three occassions.

 

There are quite a few examples of leading contenders fighting more often and more quality that the champions they are chasing. Inactive champions sitting on titles, contenders getting busy eliminating other contenders.
I think it's quite common.

A good example would be Frazier during Ali's reign, when Ali was having all that Vietnam trouble. :hey