I stopped doing serious ratings a while ago as I feel they’ve gotten too difficult over time. But if I had a serious top ten I’d still rank him in it. Holmes was a great fighter. No doubt about it. But the latter years of his reign call for questioning
Because Larry Holmes doesn't have a crap resume. I didn't notice Larry avoiding any opponents during his heavyweight reign. Larry Holmes had the case that his reign was between the reigns of Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson, so it overshadowed his reign. Anyone who thinks Larry Holmes has a crap record should compare it to the reigns of other champions. Earnie Shavers x 2 Ken Norton Mike Weaver Muhammad Ali (I know. Old and sick Muhammad Ali, who should not have been in the ring at all) Trevor Berbick Leon Spinks Tim Witherspoon James Smith Ray Mercer...
I have to speak up for Cobb, he was a legitimate contender. Not as good as Page, Berbick, or a few others but solid. The others were victims of other fighters that Holmes already beat and I agree, seem (dried) cherry picked.
I don't think most people have any issues with his resume overall, its just his last 2 or 3 years as champion. Some people believe he cherrypicked because he was aging, and didn't take on the most dangerous opponents during that time. I don't want to keep bringing it up, but its pretty hard to defend fighting Scott Frank, Marvis Frazier, instead of fighting his mandatory Greg Page and then vacating the belt. Then there was Pinklon Thomas who remained undefeated for 7 years, Holmes fought a few novice fighters with only handful of fights rather than Pinklon Thomas. Larry Holmes is a great fighter, but i don't think its wrong to criticize him for avoiding the most dangerous opposition in his last 2 or 3 years as champion. There were some pretty glaring opponents he missed out on fighting during 83-85 period.
I agree with everything you wrote. But I will look at the case from the point of view of the champions who came after Larry Holmes. Did they avoid an opponent, did some top fights not happen, did subsequent champions fight opponents who were in their prime at that moment, is it the same today, as in previous decades etc. etc. ? And looking at it like that, we can't come to the conclusion that Larry Holmes resumé is crap.
The all played games at sometime. The tenured champions. Some before 32. Others before 35 . Some stay retied before any games.
Fog Horn Leg Horn might say, this thread was started by a Troll Son, A Troll. He succeeded, he has everyone arguing. Ha Ha.
He really did do his best...to me it was the last fight of Holmes' prime. I don't think Page would have beaten him at that point.
Possibly not. Page lost to Berbick in 1982 on the undercard of Holmes vs Cooney so he wasn’t perfectly polished. And Holmes absolutely humiliated Cobb later that year. Cobb was durable and could crack. Also wasn’t afraid of any man alive and I mean that quite literally.
This is an absolute canard, though. He never unified the belts, and turned down at least one opportunity that was on the table to do so. He always avoided fights. The idea that it was just the last couple of years is revisionism. Had he gotten guys like Dokes in the ring (before the drugs destroyed him), Page, Thomas, Coetzee...then a case can be made. As it is, even some of his hard fights, like Witherspoon, he took before anyone knew they were that good.
It was primarily 1983 to 1985. So yeah two years. Prior to that most of the guys you mentioned hadn’t really come into prominence yet and even those who did weren’t as good as what he was already beating between 1978-1982.
So why no title unifications? Surely, if he would have pushed, he could have gotten something on the table? If they made the Cooney fight, they certainly could have made a fight with Tate or a rematch with Weaver for the belt.
The thing is, we boxing fans of that era all recognized Holmes as undisputed Champ, anyway. Noone I knew contested it, right into 1983. The Witherspoon fight was a bit of a surprise, but everyone I knew felt Holmes won that fight, we were just shocked how hard it seemed for him. But yeah, Larry was showing seams before that, we fans were all scratching our heads over the Lucien fight.
How long was Tate champ for ? What happened to his career after losing twice inside 3 months against foes who Holmes was beating at that exact general time frame ?