Wilder's paradox

I would argue that Peter Mcneely and Louis Monaco had some legitimacy.

 

That is pretty threadbare.

Monaco learned a lot very quickly and had a good second half of the career...I have forgotten when in his career it came. Regardless, he was so massive , I don't think the point stands of Butterbean being able to use fat against him.

McNeely is a flat-out stretch.

 

We are not talking obesity here .

Every human needs some percentage of body fat to live , fat is the fuel and energy for the body.

Going skinny does not mean "zero fat" but mostly results in loss of muscle mass and power.
Going obesity means fat in excess without any further benefit but the disadvantage of carrying dead weight.

Fighrers like ruiz and fury tend to carry excess fat and like it . Maybe they use the mass to create more momentum in the punches and use the fat to better absorb body shots .

Wilder for his body size is skinny but physically nevertheless extremely powerful , i cannot say how he does it.

Usyk e.g appears to keep his weight a bit above personal preferrence to stay in hw . I think he felt best in cw .

Taking into account only physical body shape you can say usyk and wilder have a comparable mass but without any doubts wilder has WAY more physical power than usyk .

Mike tyson was a great example of carrying some good percentage of body fat ( of course not in the amount to be obese ) and create massive energy out of it .

How much body fat is optimum depends from body to body

 

Most of the modern superheavyweights would cut weight in the 12/15 rounds era.

 

Boxing is divided into weight divisions. Not height and reach divisions.

If you take a short middleweight and a tall lightweight, you aren't going to say the tall lightweight is the "bigger" guy.

Wilder has amazing "freakish" power for a man of his, if you prefer, weight.

He's been outweighed (often by a lot) in every professional fight he's had for 10 years. And he's still knocked out everyone he's faced in that time except for Tyson Fury - who is the biggest "World" Heavyweight champion in boxing history - and he still floored Fury four times despite being outweighed by 40 pounds in their fights.

(And he'd have been outweighed by even more if he hadn't tried to put on weight for each fight to keep the weight difference at only 40 pounds.)

People say they want to see him fight Zhang or Hgrovic or some other "huge" fighters.

I'd like to see Wilder fight more boxers who weigh the same or LESS than he does on fight night. Bring on Usyk. Hell, bring them all up. All the champs from down below. Beterbiev. Bivol. Opetaia. He'd crush them like Bob Foster crushed Dick Tiger, which is why they never called him out.

Let's see how many champs he can destroy who AREN'T the biggest "World" heavyweight champion of all time.

 

Why in the world would Bivol who is really Super Middleweight/Light Heavyweight call out Wilder ? WTF. Beterbiev is almost 40 years old and never had a fight above Light Heavyweight and you expect him to call out Wilder again WTF ?

As for Usyk yes let's see that fight.

Wilder has beaten two top 10 ranked fighters in his whole career in Stirvene, Ortiz, how about we just want to him beat more elite fighters ? your complaining about the weight well that's tough. He's 6'7 with 83 inch reach he has height and reach advantages over most of his opponents.

Holyfield beat fighters much bigger than him, and he didn't have height and reach advantages either.

Holyfield 208 Douglas 246
Holyfield 208 Foreman 257
Holyfield 210 Holmes 233
Holyfield 217 Bowe 246
Holyfield 209 Mercer 224
Holyfield 209 Dokes 225

 

Is that why he dropped Fury twice in their third fight and lasted 11 rounds and had zero affect on Fury in their second fight and lasted 7 rounds?

 

Many great champs in history fought middleweight, light heavy and cruiserweight champs who moved up.

Wilder doesn't weigh any more than a lot of those heavyweight champs did when they faced off with champs from other divisions.

Plus, Beterbiev, Usyk and Wilder all fought in the same division (heavyweight) as amateurs. Beterbiev doesn't enter the ring to fight anyone weighing 175. He weighed 200 pounds in amateur fights 15 years ago. And Bivol doesn't enter the ring at 168. He weighed 190 in the amateurs 10 years ago, too. All those guys dry out to make weight and put it right back on.

When Wilder DOESN'T DRY OUT, like his last fight, he shows up in the ring at 212. Hell, Opetaia has weighed more than that in the pros.

The weight difference between Wilder and those guys when the bell rang would be negligible.

And, frankly, I could care less if Wilder outweighed them by 10 pounds or so. (Carnera was 80 pounds heavier than light heavy king Tommy Loughran.) I want to see him fight some top guys where Wilder ACTUALLY IS the bigger (heavier) fighter.

As for Evander, who is an all-timer, he gave up a lot of weight, too, but he didn't knock everyone out like Wilder. He didn't even wipe out all the guys who came up. Vaughn Bean went the distance. John Ruiz (who came up from cruiser) went the distance three times and won. Moorer (who came up from light heavy) went the distance and won. Toney, came up from middle/super middle/cruiser stopped Evander.

Evander fought guys who moved up. Why is it so outrageous Wilder fight some ... especially if they weigh close to what he weighs when they enter the ring now? (Hell, if Usyk fought Wilder right now, Usyk would probably come in the ring close to 10 pounds heavier than Wilder, because Usyk hasn't weighed as low as 212 for any of his heavyweight fights.)

I'll answer that for you. It's outrageous because Wilder would WIPE THEM OUT and, while nobody expected Evander - whether they moved up or not - to destroy anyone.

Whatever. They'll never fight him, even though he's the #1 contender in two organizations and they could immediately get in the title picture against either champ. He's too dangerous, even closing in on 38.

 

Yes but Heavyweights are alot bigger and taller now though.

Bivol is 6'0
Beterbiev is 6'0

They would be dwarfed by pretty much every top Heavyweight including Wilder who would have 7 inch height advantage and a 10 inch reach advantage.

Yes but he also as i said has a fairly big height and reach advantages over pretty much every single opponent he's fought apart from Fury of course.

Yes but as i said Wilder would still have ridiculous advantages over Beterbiev, Bivol, in height and reach.

Wilder is a very tall, slim, athletic guy, that can easily put on weight. And his weight has varied TBH looking at his stand out wins and performances.

221 vs Stirvene 2
220 vs Ortiz 2

I mean hell he's had 3 huge weight differences vs Fury with varied results.

He weighed 213 vs Fury 1st time and was competitive.
He weighted 231 vs Fury 2nd time and got dominated.
He weighed 238 vs Fury 3rd time and was competitive.

No he didn't knock everyone out but he was also facing better opposition than Wilder overall which has to be taken into consideration.

Well there's a few differences as i've already mentioned Wilder would have ridiculous height and reach advantages, Holyfield didn't have that luxury plus he was old in some of those fights you mentioned.

Also a few other points Ruiz outweighed Holyfield by atleast 10 pounds, Moorer weighed the same as Holyfield at 214, Toney was pretty much the same weight as Holyfield only 2 pounds difference, and finally Bean out weighed Holyfield by over 10 pounds.

 

More to do with Fury firing on all cylinders in the 2nd bout and being horribly out of sale in the 3rd

 

So did Hearns over Duran. It's one of Tommy's greatest wins. (I think Tommy's reach advantage was an entire foot.)

And I don't care if they don't fight any other heavyweights. I just want them to fight Wilder.

Wilder, Usyk and Beterbiev all fought in the same weight class as amateurs. Beterbiev and Usyk decided to dry out and go for belts in lighter divisions. Wilder decided to fight at heavyweight and give up ridiculous amounts of weight to opponents.

If they fought today, Usyk would probably weigh 221 or so. Wilder would weight 212-215. Opetaia used to fight as a heavyweight. He's weighed 217 as a pro. Beterbiev was 201 pounds 15 years ago. I'm sure he would weigh in the low 200s for Wilder, too. Bivol might have to give up 10 or 15 pounds to Wilder.

But, it's not like Wilder doesn't give up that much (and a lot more) all the time.

I'd love to see Wilder get to fight a bunch of champions coming up, as well as Usyk. Wilder deserves to fight people his own weight once in a while.

Any arguments against it just show how HUGE Wilder's power actually is. Because champs in those lower divisions (and their fans) don't really want any of it.

It's not about his "reach" advantage. And there wouldn't be any weight advantage to speak of.

It's all about the power. They know if they were in his shoes, they wouldn't be knocking everyone out at heavyweight. (Usyk hasn't even knocked anyone down yet.)

Let's see how good Beterbiev's power is against Wilder.

 

I'd like to see Usyk fight Wilder aswell it would answer quite a few questions for me regarding both fighters. Its arguably the 2nd best fight that can happen in the division right now.

 

Me, too. Wilder-Usyk. Wilder-Opetaia. Wilder-Beterbiev. Wilder-Bivol.

That would take Wilder up to 50 pro fights.

Fury can fight MMA guys.

 

Usyk had every opportunity to face wilder and wilder would agree immediately to face usyk.

But usyk avoided wilder like the devil the holy water , even at the cost of not gaining popularity and missing a big purse .

This should answer some questions .

It would be an extremely interesting fight since it would be limited power & superb skills vs limited skills & superb power.

Usyk himself seems to forsee how a fight vs wilder would end for him .