Wilders pre title competition is underrated

Hmm...

3 years
3 fights
22 rounds

That's all there was between the Joshua KO and the Wilder KO... And he wasn't really fighting murderers in those fights, if we're honest.

He only fought Wallin after Wilder and then retired, so no particularly hard blows there either?

 

I knew something was up when the same music woke me up on my retro clock radio. Then I ran into that guy Ned again who tried to sell me life insurance, gave me a definite deja vu vibe... Finally I saw this thread and relaxed, it's not Groundhog Day, it's let's grab the pig that is Deontay Wilders resume and see how sexy it looks if we apply a fetching shade of lipstick.

Such a special day and so much fun we do it every couple of years. I don't have much time, I have a piano lesson and ice sculpting class to attend, but there's just time to fulfil tradition and post the list, this time from the Wilder’s résumé is aging like a fine wine thread...

Here at Deontay's vintners,
We've a varied selection,
Cherry picked with great care,
At Shelley Finkel's direction,

If Chateau Dustin Nicholls,
Is your choice from our store,
Just be warned that it's likely,
To leave you on the floor,

You'd be safer in choosing,
A fine aged Malik Scott,
It puts up no resistance,
And will trouble you not,

As you enjoy good wine,
Then Sir I insist,
You sit down and check out,
Wilder's famous wine list,

1st Ethan Cox, wasn't ranked
2nd Shannon Gray, wasn't ranked
3rd Richard Greene Jr, wasn't ranked
4th Joseph Rabotte, ranked 393rd in the World
5th Charles Brown, wasn't ranked
6th Kelsey Arnold, wasn't ranked
7th Travis Allen, wasn't ranked
8th Jerry Vaughn, wasn't ranked
9th Ty Cobb, ranked 399th in the Heavyweight World
10th Alvaro Morales, wasn't ranked
11th Dustin Nichols, wasn't ranked
12th Shannon Caudle, wasn't ranked
13th Harold Sconiers, wasn't ranked
14th Dan Sheehan, wasn't ranked
15th DeAndrey Abron, wasn't ranked
16th Reggie Pena, wasn't ranked
17th Damon Reed, ranked 304th in the World
18th Dominique Alexander, wasn't ranked
19th Daniel Cota, ranked 489th in the World
20th David Long, wasn't ranked
21st Marlon Hayes, ranked 368th in the World
22nd Jesse Oltmanns, ranked 492th in the World
23rd Owen Beck, wasn't ranked
24th Kertson Manswell, ranked 310th in the World
25th Damon McCreary, ranked 357th in the World
26th Kelvin Price, wasn't ranked
27th Matthew Greer, ranked 325th in the World
28th Audley Harrison, ranked 136th in the World
29th Siarhei Liakhovich, ranked 43rd in the World
30th Nicolai Firtha, ranked 121nd in the World
31st Malik Scott, ranked 86th in the World
32nd Jason Gavern, ranked 194th in the World
33rd Bermane Stiverne, ranked 4th in the World
34th Eric Molina, ranked 37th in the World
35th Johann Duhaupas, ranked 34th in the World
36th Artur Szpilka, ranked 24th in the World
37th Chris Arreola, ranked 43rd in the World
38th Gerald Washington ranked 41st in the World
39th Bermane Stiverne “inactive for two years and UNRANKED at time of fight"
40th Luis Ortiz - ranked 6th (39 years old may not have been medically fit to fight)
41st Tyson Fury - artificially thrown back into rankings after 3 years single handedly supporting the Colombian economy.

Here at Deontay's vintners,
We've a varied selection,
Cherry picked with great care,
At Shelley Finkel's direction,

If Chateau Dustin Nicholls,
Is your choice from our store,
Just be warned that it's likely,
To leave you on the floor,

You'd be safer in choosing,
A fine aged Malik Scott,
It puts up no resistance,
And will trouble you not,

As you enjoy good wine,
Then Sir I insist,
You sit down and check out,
Wilder's famous wine list,

1st Ethan Cox, wasn't ranked
2nd Shannon Gray, wasn't ranked
3rd Richard Greene Jr, wasn't ranked
4th Joseph Rabotte, ranked 393rd in the World
5th Charles Brown, wasn't ranked
6th Kelsey Arnold, wasn't ranked
7th Travis Allen, wasn't ranked
8th Jerry Vaughn, wasn't ranked
9th Ty Cobb, ranked 399th in the Heavyweight World
10th Alvaro Morales, wasn't ranked
11th Dustin Nichols, wasn't ranked
12th Shannon Caudle, wasn't ranked
13th Harold Sconiers, wasn't ranked
14th Dan Sheehan, wasn't ranked
15th DeAndrey Abron, wasn't ranked
16th Reggie Pena, wasn't ranked
17th Damon Reed, ranked 304th in the World
18th Dominique Alexander, wasn't ranked
19th Daniel Cota, ranked 489th in the World
20th David Long, wasn't ranked
21st Marlon Hayes, ranked 368th in the World
22nd Jesse Oltmanns, ranked 492th in the World
23rd Owen Beck, wasn't ranked
24th Kertson Manswell, ranked 310th in the World
25th Damon McCreary, ranked 357th in the World
26th Kelvin Price, wasn't ranked
27th Matthew Greer, ranked 325th in the World
28th Audley Harrison, ranked 136th in the World
29th Siarhei Liakhovich, ranked 43rd in the World
30th Nicolai Firtha, ranked 121nd in the World
31st Malik Scott, ranked 86th in the World
32nd Jason Gavern, ranked 194th in the World
33rd Bermane Stiverne, ranked 4th in the World
34th Eric Molina, ranked 37th in the World
35th Johann Duhaupas, ranked 34th in the World
36th Artur Szpilka, ranked 24th in the World
37th Chris Arreola, ranked 43rd in the World
38th Gerald Washington ranked 41st in the World
39th Bermane Stiverne “inactive for two years and UNRANKED at time of fight"
40th Luis Ortiz - ranked 6th (39 years old may not have been medically fit to fight)
41st Tyson Fury - artificially thrown back into rankings after 3 years single handedly supporting the Colombian economy.

 

I hate when people throw out total lies and muddy up the forum.

This Wilder list was debunked years ago, and people keep doing a search for it and reposting it.

Those WERE NOT the ratings of those guys when Wilder fought them.

A "TROLL" (possibly YOU) posted MAINLY "BOXREC RATINGS" of fighters by doing a search of those names just before Wilder defended his belt, I believe against Fury.

Other than an odd Ring rating where they could find one, that's where nearly all those guys were rated, or not rated, many years later, in some cases A FULL DECADE after he fought them.

Most are listed as unranked because they were long since retired by the time the person putting the list together searched their ratings. But when Wilder fought them, nearly all were active fighters and therefore would've been ranked on boxrec.

It's like taking Wilder's current rating on Boxrec (#41) (because he's not rated by Ring anymore) and saying that's where Wilder was ranked when Fury beat him in 2020.

Or saying Carlos Takam was UNRANKED when Joshua defended his titles against him because Takam is unranked and retired NOW.

It's SIMPLY NOT TRUE. It's a near complete fabrication. So stop reposting it like it's fact.

You are purposely posting BAD INFORMATION. Trolling is prohibited on the site.

Everyone Wilder faced from 2015 to last year ... was a ranked contender by one of the four major sanctioning bodies. He didn't fight anyone in a title fight who was UNRANKED. Or ranked #40 SOMETHING.

It's a straight up lie. If you have to lie to prove whatever you're trying to prove, then it's better just not to post at all.

If I'm wrong, then I want you to post which ORG ranked each guy there when Wilder fought them.

You're the one sharing that false crap. Prove it isn't false by posting the actual rating (and which ratings you're using) when he fought them.

I don't know why some of you continue to do this. But it's maddening. Don't share lies as fact.

 

Lots of fans here have bashed Wilder for years, claiming they didn't like him because he said he wanted a "body" on his record, or more likely because this is a mainly European forum and Wilder was the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl" during the glory years of British heavyweight boxing.

When all the top heavyweights were mainly Brits, Wilder held one of the heavyweight titles for five frustrating years and kept them from total dominance. It seemed to really bother a lot of British fans.

But, in all likelihood, if the first Wilder-Stiverne fight wasn't for a WBC belt (like Stiverne got stripped or was just the WBC #1 contender for beating Arreola), and Wilder had the exact same record ... nearly all the same guys who are bashing him around the clock would likely be lauding him for being one of the most dangerous heavyweights in history who never won a heavyweight title.

Imagine, if Wilder had the same record and no belt. And Fury was the lineal champ all three times Wilder fought him (which Fury was for many of us).

Wilder wasted a former champ in one round. He wasted a handful of guys who challenged for the title before and after they fought him. He destroyed the other top American heavyweights. He knocked out the WBC's top contender in one. He knocked out the WBA #2 contender in one. He stopped the former European champion. He knocked out Luis Ortiz TWICE in thrilling shootouts before facing Fury.

And, imagine, in what would've been his only three title fights, Wilder floored Fury four times combined in their first and third fights. He fought Fury to a draw in fight one and lost the third fight after Fury got controversial long counts in the first and third fights. Fury-Wilder 1 was a candidate for Fight of the Year. Fury-Wilder 3 WON Fight of the Year.

And he only lost to three highly rated guys (Fury, Parker and Zhang) in total over a 16-year career, all of whom had huge weight advantages over him.

I have no doubt the guys who complain the most about his record would be the same guys praising him as one of the most dangerous challengers the division has ever produced ... who just came up a little short in title fights ... and you wouldn't have to change A SINGLE RESULT on his record for them to do it.

His record is fine. It's just because he had that WBC belt for five years that sends them spiraling.

 

I haven't seen anyone post or mention anything about country dominance on this thread.
The last time I read something like that was after Joshua lost ro Ruiz and something said like that re all belts in the USA at HW.
Even then I don't think anyone cared?
I think what people are commenting on is some of the fights that didn't happen

I used to be unsure (not that i am any relevance or have any valid opinion) as a boxing fan where Wilder wanted to go with his career
For example

When Wilder was WBC champion, he had the lineal champion enter the ring and say he would come to his backyard
Wilder didn't seem to want that fight at that time and was I believe saying Povetkin next.
The Povetkin fight didn't happen and didn't ever get rescheduled.
I don't know if he tried to unify with Martin when both HW champions
I don't know if he tried to unify with Wladimir when both HW champions
He mentioned he turned down more money to face Fury than to unify
He didn't seem interested in Whyte

Yes he has had a good career and been a big feature in the division but when champion I think it could be argued that Whyte was arguably taking bigger fights without a title

None of that is in anyway a slur. Far from
I have wrote
Duhaupaus, Ortiz, Ortiz, Fury, Breazeale, Washington
Doesn't look bad at all.

 

Here's the thing....it isn't underrated. Pre and post title win, garbage.

 

I can't argue Wilder's career anymore because it's the same argument over and over for years running, and it's not interesting to me at this point.

I only chimed in because someone posted the same garbage lies about the ratings of his opponents that is just bad information.

Passing along bad information doesn't help educate anyone.

Wilder's record is fine. He was undefeated for 12 years. His record against ranked heavyweight fighters in that era is 11-4-1 (and he was the lighter guy against all of them).

Fans here seemed to take issue with the fact that he had held the WBC belt for five years during the greatest British run in heavyweight history, he spoiled Fury's big comeback they were all set to celebrate, he blocked the Joshua-Fury unification because he had a signed contract for a third Fury fight, and he was the guy who just didn't let them have all the cake.

So they ridicule his opponents, deny fighters were ranked who were, and bash everyone he signed to fight ...

And if he never had a WBC belt and had the same record ... I firmly believe their tunes would all change.

It's not his record they're mad it. They heap praise on fighters with worse records who fought lesser opponents.

It's the fact that he had the WBC belt and spoiled the party for years. And now the party for the Brits is largely over.

 

Yes thats true . I also do not understand why a guy having 48 fights and 10 title defences in 5 years , fighting frequently several times a year and having an unbelievable KO rate is bashed ... strange

 

Your standards of quality are lower than Wilders.

 

I think you are the one that seems more upset and worried about the demographics of where fighters are based than anyone and seem to be mentioning it on here more than anyone else I have read.

I think you either misunderstood what some have said or choose to selectively ignore parts.
Whilst I agree that fake information (if there has been any) should not be spread, there is areas where fans have commented.
When you say ranked fighters it can be misleading for example a defence I believe can be anyone in the top 15 of that governing body but not a universally rated top 10 fighter.
At the moment the WBC HW #10 M Aliev who is 9-0.
Would you justify him as an Usyk opponent? Then say Usyk beat a ranked fighter as justication of it being a decent win?
Of course that is just an example, but I'm sure you see what I mean?

Why do you think someone would say something different if it wasn't Wilder?
Who do you feel has a worse record with praise heaped upon them?

 

This is why I can't argue this anymore. People make up garbage just to argue.

Wilder's opponents were fine. None of his ranked opponents were 9-0.

His ranked opponents records when they fought Wilder in title fights were:
24-1-1 (W)
23-2 (W)
32-2 (W)
20-1 (W)
36-4-1 (W)
18-0-1 (W)
25-2-1 (W)
28-0 (W)
27-0 (D)
20-1 (W)
31-1 (W)
29-0-1 (L)
30-0-1 (L)

His ranked opponents' records post-title were
31-3 (W)
33-3 (L)
26-2-1 (L)

Fury challenged for the heavyweight title four times, Arreola challenged for the heavyweight title three times, Stiverne challenged for it twice, Breazeale challenged for it twice, Molina challenged for it twice, Ortiz challenged for it twice, Parker challenged for it twice.

The only guys he fought in that period who have never challenged for a heavyweight title were the 31-3 Helenius (who beat former champions like Brewster, Peter and Liakhovich previously) and the 26-2-1 Zhang, also a veteran.

There were no 9-0 guys on the list.

It was a fairly veteran group. They were all ranked by one or more of the four sanctioning bodies. They were all successful heavyweights at that point.

His opponents were fine. People are just used to nitpicking them to death ... because he had a WBC belt and they wished he hadn't, so they have to belittle them.

IF Wilder never held the WBC belt and he fought all those same guys ... NOBODY would have a problem with ANY of them. There are no Shawndell Winters on that list.

No "green" 9-0 opponents.

They complain because he didn't "unify" with Joshua before Joshua lost to Ruiz, and he didn't "lose" to Fury the first time so Fury could complete his "miracle" comeback story, and then he blocked Joshua-Fury unification from happening because he had a signed contract for a third Fury fight.

He ruined the great British run in this century. The turd in the punch bowl.

 

Relax , nobody in the boxing industry is questioning wilders achievements and legacy .
Its only some users here , with the general spirit of wilder being a bum and usyk being the forums darling .

But as long as no personal insults emerge its imho ok to discuss .

I give wilder my full respect , he has done much for the sport . A lot of exciting fights where everybody waited for his crushing right hand . Of course he was not perfect , no fighter is.

 

You may want to take a second look at that, because he really didn't.

 

Wilder's reign as WBC champion devalued the belt due to the pitifully weak opposition he faced.

His run since the first Fury fight where he was gifted a "draw" despite losing has devalued his legacy and the belt even further.

In fights against world level opposition Wilder's record is
1 win vs Luis Ortiz
3 losses vs Fury
1 loss vs Parker
1 loss vs Zhang
Overall record is Won 1 and Lost 5.

The historians are not going to be too kind to him in the years to come. He should have taken the fight against Anthony Oluwafemi Olaseni Joshua when he had the chance. As if he had potted Femi, which was a real possibility, then he could have laid some claim to greatness. Unfortunately nappies were soiled and that fight never happened.

The bigger picture though is that Wilder made a great living from the sport with limited talent and very careful management, and for that he will walk away with his head held high.

 

I watched all his fights there after

He really did

Went down fairly easy but always back to his feet, even the Wilder KO he was back to his feet and that was a terrific punch