Willard -vs- Johnson. Rare post fight footage.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2017.



  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007

    Solid post. The pacing of the fight was not that fast though. 80 degrees is not that hot.

    The average temperature for April in Cuba is 77 degrees. Low of 70, high of 83.8. Hardly hot as H@ll!

    [url]http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/city.php3?c=CU[/url]

    While many mention Johnson's age, Willard was 33, and almost went a year out of the ring before this fight. Johnson had a fight just a few months ago.

    Upon defeat Johnson said

    “It was a clean knockout and the best man won,” Johnson told the New York Times. “It was not a matter of luck. I have no kick coming.”

    Johnson struck a similar tone later that night when the pair was given souvenir gold watches from the “Citizens of Havana.” Johnson also received a loving cup from Willard’s trainers and Curley.

    “The best man won,” the ex-champion declared. “I would not belittle another man’s accomplishment and I wish Willard all the luck he would wish himself.”

    >>> Nine months later, however, Johnson dramatically changed his tune. On January 2, 1916, Johnson, for a $250 fee paid by Nat Fleischer, future publisher of The Ring Magazine, released a combination handwritten/typewritten confession that he threw the Willard fight in exchange for undisturbed re-entry into the United States and $50,000 in cash. Johnson said the original agreement was to have him end the fight in round 11 once his wife indicated the money was in hand. But when that round came and went, Johnson, continued to fight and because he thought he was being double-crossed, he fought to win. Then, after the end of round 24, he said he saw his wife, Lucille Cameron Johnson, give the predetermined signal – one version was the wave of a white handkerchief while another was a nod of her head – and “I let the fight end as it did.”
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    His wife was not in the arena when he was ko'd.
    Johnson went to Curley's office the next morning to collect his purse, he told him,"I didnt believe there was a man alive who could keep standing if I seriously went after him".Johnson seriously overestimated what he had left in the tank at 37 given the lifestyle he had been leading unrelentingly since beating Jeffries 5 years before, and he underestimated Willard's strength and durability .

    There's nothing unusual about champions making excuses when they are dethroned.
    Fitzsimmons said he was drugged by his Brother in law when he lost his title to Jeffries.After some reflection Jeffries insisted he had drunk drugged tea and that was what beat him against Johnson.On the train home immediately after the fight he told a reporter, who suggested that had he been prime he would have won, "I couldn't have beaten Johnson in a thousand years,I couldn't have reached him ".
    Foreman said he was drugged against Ali, only to admit later he was beaten fair and square.
    Burns later said he would have beaten Johnson had the police allowed the fight to go on,yet immediately after he said in print," how grieviously I had underated him, and how wrong I was to agree to punching in the clinches." Burns said he wanted another crack at Johnson, he was talking out of the money side of his mouth, he was beaten up like a smallboy by a grown man.
    Ketchel said he got excited and made a mistake against Johnson ,and given a rematch he would have fought with a more cooler head,he later admitted that he never really got over that fight.
    Langford and his manager insisted he dropped Johnson and gave as good as he got, he later admitted that "Johnson gave me the only real beating I ever took" .
    Fighters have egos and a vested interest in down playing there defeats, and in Johnson's case he saw a chance to make a couple of bucks.Morally wrong to do so ?I would say so.
    Does it have any bearing on his ability as a fighter?
    NONE WHATSOEVER!

    The Havana result was a genuine ko, Johnson was on his uppers when he sold his "confession" to Fleischer.
    His motive for doing so was purely financial.
     
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,512
    Apr 26, 2015
    Completely disagree that Fleischers observations attending thousands of bouts should be so easily dismissed. He is the historian from this time period.

    His attending Johnson Jeffries:
    50 years at ringside:

    Page 75 - 77. Johnson remained in Reno for a short time where I saw him stop Jeffries and then went on to Chicago where he was the center of a wild reception. I was told to stay with Johnson until his arrival in NY where the police feared a race riot. When I arrived in Buffalo on the Johnson Special a throng surrounded the car where Johnson was standing on the platform. A backfire from a automobile was mistaken for gunfire. We all made a dive for it into the club car and when we learned what had actually took place Johnson with his broad grin returned to the platform to greet the cheering gathering.

    Fleischer goes on to describe the crowds at various other cities leading to a massive throng at Grand Central Station and then herald square where Johnson was staying.

    "Thousands blocked the square. Many white folks were also crowded the banquet hall but none were molested. It was a good natured crowd for the most part."

    This led to Nat accompaning Johnson to his suite for a promised exclusive interview However Johnsons wife unknowing that he had a guest in the room walked from the bathroom nude (she was getting ready for the evenings celebration). She went into a tirade grabbed a chair and threw it as they both ran out of the room. Fleischer states he never got his interview but had sufficient data gathered from the train ride to write the story.

    Page 77. Fleischer writes in some detail about talking with Johnson in Reno after the fight asking him for the reason Jeffries lost. Johnson stood up and put his hands up illustrating how a blow to Jeffries left eye that closed it started him on his downfall. " you see I led and drew him out like this. He thought I would come back with my right hand but I crossed over with a strong uppercut with my left like this. "
     
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,512
    Apr 26, 2015
    Fleischer attending Johnson Willard

    Page 83
    I was about to take my annual vacation. I had visited the Pearl of the Antilles nine times from 1909 to 1914 and had many friends there and invariably paid my expenses by writing articles for El Mundo. I was delighted to learn that this fight would be decided there. I had no trouble convincing jack price sports editor of my paper that the assignment to cover this battle belonged to me. I left NY a fortnight before Willard arrived and set up at the Palace Hotel which Johnson made his Havana headquarters.

    He goes on to account conversations with both Willard and Johnson. He spent most of his time with Willard as he was the big story. Nat supplies intimate details about Willard and his demeanor before the bout, details of the fight and after fight in Willards dressing room.
     
  5. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

    5,291
    969
    Nov 7, 2011
    Nat Fleischer was a fool. For example in 1971 he was certain that Ali was not an a top 10 all time a champion.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,512
    Apr 26, 2015
    As most felt at that time.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    I'm convinced!
     
  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,903
    7,582
    Mar 17, 2010
    I was there too.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    With your camera no doubt!
    I'll be there next year ,I want to go to the Floridita,Hemingway's old hang out and combine it with a few days in Key West, visiting Sloppy Joe's
     
    reznick likes this.
  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,903
    7,582
    Mar 17, 2010
    Careful. It's hotter than hell down there.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    Not in the Floridita!
     
  12. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,842
    15,172
    Oct 4, 2016
    All the talk about Johnson throwing the fight was bullshzzz . Willard knocked him unconscious . Did anyone notice the gloves they were putting on what looked like untapped hands? Mercy!
     
  13. Tomsharkeyfan

    Tomsharkeyfan New Member Full Member

    24
    15
    May 13, 2017
    Johnson was 37 years old, not in the best shape and went against a motivated Willard. Willard had a style that was different than most of Johnson's previous challengers. Willard used his reach and threw an effective right cross. Further, Willard was durable and displayed great stamina in his fight with Johnson. I don't believe that Johnson took a dive. Matter of fact, Johnson looked impressive in the early rounds. Johnson went after Willard and had Willard on the defensive.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,512
    Apr 26, 2015
    The key was the 45 round distance. Johnsons only hope was a KO win. He and everyone else knew he could not go 45 rounds.

    Had the bout been for 20-25 rounds Johnson would have gotten the decision.
     
    reznick and mcvey like this.
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    I think its one of Johnson;s most impressive performances.