Wladimir Klitschko vs Ali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    Looks that this was also not only small boxers era, this was era where some boxers were larger than their opponents in marquee fights.
    Patterson definitely had good amateur resume and pro resume. Approx 190 lber.
    His most notable lost fights were vs Liston ( 220 lber ) and Ali who too was larger than he. 4 defeats in his resume vs these opponents.
    I think if Patterson was 220 lbs boxer's size, he had been more competitive vs 220 lbs Liston and most likely had defeated Liston.
     
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,204
    10,788
    May 4, 2017
    Ali took Shaver`s power Wlad didn`t punch harder than Shavers.
     
  3. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    Shavers didn't had landed on him properly and most likely he really had more power than Foreman in his prime.
    Ali had been dropped by Cooper and utter nonsense is to argue that small ~20 lbs lighter than Ali Cooper was comparable in skills and power and etc than dudes like Wlad and Lewis or Vitali.

    The way he too this power was easily visible after this fight till end of Ali life.
    U.S boxing researchers and historians posted articles that after this fight vs Shavers his speech etc had been declined.

    I do know that Ali fans will claim that he will beat all modern Large HW era boxers and will till end of their life disrespect non U.S boxers.

    The reality is that Ali was CW size boxers beater, credited even for old gentleman in Mr. Moore beating who was smaller than Patterson.
    Credited for beating Patterson twice while even slow but powerful and for these times very large Liston had beated small for him Patterson 2 times.
    Ali ofc deserves credit for Liston's beating, Liston then had been considered as potential winner. Liston had chip on shoulder and boxed not like modern boxers are doing this. Maybe also confidence from 190 lbs Patterson's beatup gave him too big chip on his shoulder.
     
  4. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    36,107
    29,952
    Aug 21, 2012
    I agree with most of what you say but not this. Shavers landed some BOMBS on Ali.
     
    Surrix likes this.
  5. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    Bombs he ofc had landed and not low number of them.
    The properly landed bomb is stuff for example like Inoue, Pov etc boxers and also Ali had landed on guys in their fights.
    Or even Loma vs Linares or Garcia vs Campbell.
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,204
    10,788
    May 4, 2017
    Shavers battered Ali all over the place.
    This content is protected
     
  7. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,204
    10,788
    May 4, 2017
    This content is protected

    This content is protected

     
  8. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    Didn't researched, ppl from U.S had posted a lot of articles, blogs etc about Ali in 70 ies.
    I don't know why he continued to fight after had defeated Foreman? Again famous, $, Olympic Gold medalist, good resume, for example Liston's beating who was not smaller than he alone is good for resume.
    Sad story that he was like only 38 y.o in 1980 th and already was boxing corpse.

    Maybe King encouraged him to fight after win vs Foreman? Doesn't looks that he was poor after this and he also already was enough famous, worldwide known big name.
     
  9. ertwin

    ertwin Active Member Full Member

    1,047
    749
    Aug 2, 2016
    of course he did higher ko rate against fighters that where way bigger and heavier
     
  10. Salty Dog

    Salty Dog Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,111
    1,564
    Sep 5, 2008
    This is silly. Ali was faster, more skilled with better stamina and footwork. He had the physical attributes necessary with long arms and amazing reflexes. He could absorb young Foreman's power which is at least that of either Klitschko. Ali fought 15 round fights against legendary opponents. Wlad has a weak chin and gasses on a regular basis and was never in the ring with anybody approaching Ali's stature and never fought more than 12 rounds. His best win is who? His best opponent was who?

    The crowning achievement of the Klitschko brothers is that the better of the 2 managed to lose a great and competitive (up until the stoppage) battle to Lennox Lewis, the only legit ATG in their combined resumes.
     
    john roberts and Gatekeeper like this.
  11. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    .


    Go to the hell with your western fans talks about Ali.

    Namecalling and beat famous surnames like old Moore is cool for western fanbase.

    Ali is most overvalued boxer in world history with sillly fans who are calling anyone not agreeing with them as dumb, namecall other opponents and hate non U.S boxers.

    While prime Lewis definitely had KOed out Ali cold and also hated in forums by name callers westerners Vitaly and Wlad too.
    A.J and Fury, maybe even Wilder had KOed him out COLD.

    Ate this name caller.
    Wlad's resume had been in depth researched by U.S and U.K boxing historians and pundits, ppl who do not post in forums or YT comments anything.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  12. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,204
    10,788
    May 4, 2017
    The nation of Islam took most of Ali`s money, he made money after his career ended by releasing anaftershave using his name and taking the royalties, King ripped Ali off too.

     
  13. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,187
    1,494
    Sep 16, 2020
    Didn't knew that islam had took his money. I knew that King is talked a lot about how he deal't with boxers. :(
    Ofc he had earned with him a lot and actually with boxers he turned into famous person.

    I think if he had retired from boxing fights after Foreman fight he today most likely had been alive:) and I think lived without assistance.
    Foreman was different, looks that he today still is fine. Frazier died when he wasn't that old to die.
    Tyson too talked about King a lot.
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    35,466
    5,170
    Mar 7, 2012
    I like reading your passionate posts. But you are very defensive.

    Yes, some people overrate Ali. Yes, some people underrate guys like Wlad. But you should be able to decipher who’s objective and who isn’t.

    There’s some very good objective posters on here. So try and find those guys, and then ignore the rest. Not everybody is biased against EE fighters. I’m certainly not. I’m British. I don’t care where a fighter originates from.

    Regarding Ali, again, he wasn’t a CW. Just because there’s plenty of guys at CW today who are Ali’s size, it doesn’t mean that Ali was a CW, or that he would have been CW if he fought today. Ali was a genuine HW. Yes, he didn’t face a lot of big guys. Yes, most of his opponents were smaller than him. And that’s obviously because his era didn’t possess guys like Lewis, Wlad, Vitali, Valuev and Fury etc. But he did beat genuine HW’s. Guys who would also have been genuine HW’s if they fought today.

    When trying to match fighters together, you have to look at all of the available evidence to hand. You have to look at Ali’s attributes. You then have to look at the attributes of the guy who you’re choosing as a fantasy opponent. Then you have to look at Ali’s opponents, as well as the opponents of the other guy/guys you’re putting forward. You have to be objective and give an honest opinion on how you think they’d have matched up stylistically. That’s all you can do.

    Yes, size and weight is hugely important. But again, the right blend of styles and attributes, can overcome even huge disparities in weight.

    Every large fighter that you have put forward, all either struggled with, or lost to, guys who were smaller. Guys who were of a similar size to Ali.


    Lennox Lewis:

    Lost to Oliver McCall by knockout.

    Lost to Hasim Rahman by knockout.

    Struggled against Ray Mercer. (many people believe that Mercer won)


    Tyson Fury:

    Struggled against Steve Cunningham.


    Wladimir Klitschko:

    Lost to Corrie Sanders by knockout.

    Lost to Lamont Brewster by knockout.

    Lost to Ross Puritty by knockout.


    Vitali Klitschko:

    Struggled against Chris Byrd.


    Nikolai Valuev:

    Lost to Ruslan Chagaev.

    Lost to David Haye.

    Struggled to beat Evander Holyfield. (many people thought that Evander won)


    Nobody here is being biased by picking Ali to beat Wlad, even if he never beat anybody as big in his own career. As long as they’re being objective with their reasoning, it’s fine. You mention Cooper giving Ali trouble. And he did. And maybe Wlad would have crushed Cooper. But that still doesn’t mean that Ali couldn’t have beaten Wlad at his best. Again, it all depends on when they’d have fought, and how they’d have matched up stylistically. And that’s the exact reason why the guys who you’ve put forward all struggled with guys of Ali’s size, as noted above.

    Despite having trouble with smaller, lesser fighters, Muhammad Ali was absolutely capable of beating Lennox, Wlad, Vitali, Fury and Valuev. Because he possessed a variety of great attributes which would have given him a very reasonable chance. And again, a guy like Valuev would have been easy for Ali in his prime. Because despite his huge size, he did not possess the skills and the mobility of the other guys who you’ve put forward.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
    Entaowed likes this.
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    35,466
    5,170
    Mar 7, 2012
    The issue here, is that you yourself are also name calling people who don’t agree with your opinions.

    You are labelling people as being biased against EE fighters if they pick Ali.
     
    Entaowed and MarkusFlorez99 like this.