Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Mar 29, 2021.
Liston fights were fixed
Did you mean Ali vs Liston II? The first bout was not fixed.
lol yea hha
There's always some clown Ali on points is possible but in no way does featherfist Ali manage to KO Wlad.
Well, regards to Liston fights with Ali I'm not sure.
People had considered that Liston will win first fight with Ali because he had beated Patterson and looked vs small Patterson very impressive. Patterson also had good amateur resume with a lot of KOs ( I'f some sources are correct then 37 KOs in amateurs ) and had Olympic Gold medal. He had also good pro resume and was pro champ.
Liston was ****y and assumed: I had finished one Olympic Gold medalist, I will finish also next Olympic Gold medalist.
Then when he had lost 1 st fight he maybe had too high mental impact from this upset?
For 2 nd fight he maybe still did not had recovered from this unexpected upset and maybe feared a lot? I can't tell.
Ali was able to KO George Foreman. Who else was able to do the same to him? It's not like Wlad had an iron chin.
Incidentally, according to George Foreman, Ali apparently had similar punching power to Evander Holyfield for what it's worth.
Ali wasn't a world-ender in terms of power, but he was hardly feather-fisted.
Wlad, as mentioned, wasn't exactly iron chinned and could bust up. A cut-eye/injury stoppage is certainly within the realm of possibility, even if Ali doesn't stop him outright.
Yeah that's because Foreman blew himself out. I have already addressed this in my first post.
George Foreman says a lot of things. He is generally complimentary towards other boxers. Holyfield was not a huge puncher either.
Ali too did not had iron chin, Norton had broken his chin and this is stated in U.S media.
Also if compare with Foreman facts are these:
Foreman KOed Norton in 2 nd round while Ali had lost vs Norton 1 fight and had very questionable win via decision in one fight vs Norton where a lot of Frazier and Forman fans think that Norton had been robbed because Ali was under King and King was most impactful promoter in U.S. In fact no doubts only about 1 Ali win vs Norton via decision from 3 fights they had for a lot of ppl in U.S he is 1-2 vs Norton.
Also Frazier lasted in 2 fights vs Foreman 2 rounds and in second fight 5 rounds while Ali ate a lot from Frazier, had lost fight vs Frazier, had suspicious fight and also won mainly via cuts 1 fight vs Frazier.
Norton was approx 206 lbs in one fight vs Ali. He wasn't large HW boxer and if Norton had achieved this then why Wlad could not had achieved the same?
Because he is from Ukraine, assumed by Ali fans as unskilled and overrated also exactly because he is not from U.S.
Also Ali had won fights via decision with boxers in weight under 200 lbs and also some from them had lost fight with him due to cuts.
Ali also did not had rematch with Foreman and for Foreman fans this looks very suspicious.
Regards to Wlad period after he had mixed western training to added for his EE basis, he was not easy to hit until he get old.
Improved Wlad's version was a bit underdog when he was 38 y. 7 months old with 65 pro fights and long mileage in amateurs under belt and had showed signs of decline and had been scheduled to fight with 33 y.o then undefeated Pulev exactly cos his mileage was longer, more fights under belt and Pulev then had 20-0-0 pro record and not bad amateur background.
Then Wlad was not enough old and he ended Pulev's prime.
Best version of Wlad for him was when he mixed his EE boxing with western and get western coach.
There of course is big problem with EE origin boxers: they usually continue to fight when they clearly are over the hill and out of prime.
The same half lethargic Wlad vs Fury and later.
Some boxers just vacate belts and retire but he no, he continued.
For someone without an iron chin he sure was able to survive heavy punchers, He beat Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Norton, Foster. These guys had good to great punching power yet none of them, despite landing occasionally, were able to stop him or drop him with the exception of Frazier who he beat twice in three fights. He's never been knocked out either.
This isn't a knock on Wlad because he's Ukrainian, it's because after evaluating his career there is nothing to suggest that he could have beaten Muhammad Ali. Purrity, Sanders, Brewster and AJ were able to stop Wladimir. Peter put him down 3 times and Williamson put him down as well. He wasn't very difficult to put down if you can catch him. Ali would hit him early and often and by the late rounds he would exhaust him. This isn't a good match up for Wlad.
By the way Wlad never rematched Corrie Sanders. This looks suspicious as well.
Foreman blew himself out. Tell me more about Wlad vs Ross "the boss" Purity. Whatever happened there.
Look this is a style issue. Ali has the style, speed, chin and savvy to outpoint Klitschko. Wlad would be a clear underdog.
As I said already "Ali's best bet is to try to lure Wlad into blowing himself out but the prime Wlad trained by Steward was so cautious that this is an improbability."
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That's your opinion. I think Ali has major trouble with Wlad's jab, his size, his punching power and the way he creates space with footwork when guys try close in on him. I'd favour Klitschko.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they had offered to fight only in U.S and this might be suspicious like with buterlo?
I do no insist that Wlad even was GOAT or unbeateble.
Ali is overvalued as hell, he fought a lot of small boxers, including very old Gentleman in Moore, this is shame not boxing.
Also he get very suspicious cards vs Norton and for me Ali is 1-2 vs Norton.
If he was not able to finish a lot boxers below 200 lbs then for me he isn't any kind of modern boxers beater unless he will circle till King's cards on his foot.
This at first.
Also I will pick prime Lewis, Vitaly and Wlad to stop this boxer in distance, also A.J and Fury. Also Tyson from 1988 th most likely did not allowed him to travel till cards.
One boxer who used defense common in modern days vs him was small 190 lber in Patterson and later Norton who beated him up and broken his chin. Frazier beated out of him all health and Shavers too.
While Wlad etc are judged as overvalued etc alike, Wlad and Vitaly and Foreman are still healthy.
Wlad fought in age when Ali was boxing corpse in the ring vs Holmes and Foreman today looks healthy.
Ali psyched out Foreman where he laid on the ropes and let George punch himself out. George was exhausted.
I don’t believe that Ali was feather fisted. I think he had very respectable power.