Wladimir Klitschko vs Ali

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm not so sure cos their size was different.
    I do not hype up for example Loma over Rigo cos Rigo was smaller and old.
    I attempt to think critically.

    About reasons a bit later.

    I usually had placed Lewis in the same line as Vitali and Wlad. Power, possible legacy.
    For Vitali and Wlad there was big NO to make hyper fight who might had been sold damn well. Fight with brother.
    This might had ruined their future career in politics and business and also respect in general society and their mother didn't allowed this too. She knew how this might ruin their future after boxing career. Smart mum.

    While a lot of ppl think that Lewis had ducked rematch vs Vitaly ( partially I agree with this and had admit this as reality IF Lewis was not 38 y.o, I do take age and mileage in account regardless from boxer's origin ) I think he knew that his prime is gone.
    Otherwise why not to collect very big paychecks for next fight with Vitaly?

    The problem is that he was too old. 38.

    I rate these : Vitaly, Lewis and Wlad ( in period after he get also western training added ) in one line and do not place them who was better or wasn't. I do not wish to do this. These boxers also likes me.
     
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  2. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

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    Mercer I believe would’ve given Ali a hell of a fight, I think he could have beaten him, or at least razor close
     
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  3. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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    What I’m finding hard to understand in your argument is you say you take into account age and a fighters milage but you keep bringing up Ali losing a fight with Norton as though that’s some kind barometer, you do realise Ali didn’t fight Norton for the first time until his 43rd professional fight of which lots of those were 15 rounders, Lewis who you are giving a pass for not rematching vitali as past it was fighting his 44 th fight of 12 rounders and was retired by then, this is why age alone doesn’t define primes and peaks in a fighter and why no one should ever bring up Norton in a conversation about Ali fighting some one in his prime/peak because it’s so far off of peak it’s unbelievable, I would say is peak was roughly between 10-15 fights before and 6 years before, just for a bit more contex fury will have to fight another 12 times to get to that milestone and Joshua another 18. will we be calling them prime when they get to that figure I think not, so let’s stop it ehh .
     
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  4. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Active Member Full Member

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    Eh nah styles make fights. Ancient Larry Holmes was able to beat Mercer so a prime Ali would probably school him. Holmes had the quick jab and the style to give Mercer problems. It definitely wasn't Mercers best night but still Holmes was way past it. Mercer was a boxer puncher so a mover and the genius ring iq in Holmes really gave him problems. Lewis in my opinion is on the same level as prime Ali but the thing is stylistically he just didn't give Mercer a whole lotta issues
     
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  5. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I do not have hard to understand a lot from forums posters logic and their flow - chart.



    This content is protected




    Ali was 31 years old when he fought with Norton first time and had surprisingly lost this fight.



    Wlad is often judged as unskilled and dumb by Ali fans because this fight:



    39 years 8 months old Wlad vs Fury.:yaay:D

    Also Wlad’s haters love to mention 41 years 1 month old Wlad in fight vs AJ as a proof how bad boxer he was.:bananaride



    I should remind you that in age when Ali was half alive boxing corpse Wlad defeated Pulev, 33 y.o undefeated cotender?:p



    Wlad’s haters also love to mention his defeats in early career period.:p;)



    Why then I can’t mention that Ali had been praised for old, very small for him big name in 45 y.o Moore beatup?:(

    That Ali had been dropped by boxer who was 20 lbs lighter than he?:p



    Also Wlad’s haters usually mention that this was “ weak era “ while they before boxer’s fight with Wlad had praised how good is next Wlad’s opponent and how good this era is.;)

    When boxer did not had beated Wlad then “ weak era and Wlad is not good, just boxer was bad, appeared overvalued. “;)



    I ofc do know how nicely ppl are talking how bad CW division is ( I know, long years without champs from proper countries is real reason ) while boxers like Liston and Ali are credited for 190 lber in Patterson beatup and praised for this,:D



    Patterson of course might made a hell for current LHW division but he is too small even for modern CW division.

    When famous boxer had beated him up, this win is cool.;)



    Patterson will not beat even Dorticos not alone modern HW top boxers and even not Usyk called in forums as pillow fisted ukrainian by some posters.





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    I initially wished to talk about Norton’s size and weight and point that he had different style.

    Naw, if surnames does matters so much, then let it go.

    Only surnames matters. From where boxer does come and his surname.





    While a lot of boxers beated up by Ali or decisioned by Ali were too small for modern CW division, not alone HW division.



    From where :nononoboxer does come and his surname:nonono:nonono defines “ good era “, “ bad era “ and “ weak division “, “ strong division”.

    Also bad boxer or good boxer.:nonono

    This is common flowchart in forums posts.:nonono:nonono:nonono:nonono:nonono

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  6. john roberts

    john roberts Member Full Member

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  7. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

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    Yeah mercer blew hot an cold but when he was hot he was tough, could jab and wouldn’t be deterred. Ali loses rounds to mercer imo, you can’t dance forever and he’d make Ali earn it like the other fighting marine he fought in Norton. Mercer believe it or not will be able to jab with Ali
     
  8. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Active Member Full Member

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    Ali in his prime before jail could definitely dance for a while. He did it against Liston who had an even better jab than Mercer. I see Ali loosing rounds because Mercer delt with the jab and power of Lewis so Mercer would definitely walk him down because Ali wasn't exactly a puncher but i honestly think Ali takes it comfortably after a few rocky rounds. 9-3 type decision if it went 12 rounds
     
  9. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Liston did not fought like Norton, Wlad, Vitaly, Lewis or even Mercer.
    Liston was ****y cos he had beated up 190 lbs Patterson and used vs Ali stuff modern boxer does not use if they does not have too big chips on shoulder. While Ali also appeared with different style and larger, with better legs than small Patterson.
    Most likely cos Liston also undervalued him, he was great and touted then as CHAMP, was considered as better.
    I think Norton too had beated up Liston if they had fought.
    With Patterson in 220 lber's size both, Wlad and Norton had more problems than with Liston.
    As ppl told, different styles.
    Size too matters, weight and reach too.
     
  10. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think that prime Moore if he had Liston's dimensions and weight 220 lbs , being 30-35 y.o too had gave more problems for both: Norton and Wlad than Liston.
     
  11. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

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    Good post, I don’t see anything wrong with what your saying really, I just feel mercer is ticking boxes in what troubled Ali
     
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  12. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Active Member Full Member

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    Most definitely. If mercer does pin him down like Liston did from time to time it'll be a dangerous situation for Ali and the fact that Mercer is bigger than Liston doesn't help
     
  13. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Active Member Full Member

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    But Foreman himself has been in the ring with Liston and said Liston was able to take his shots and push him back. Liston is overrated imo but he was skilled and was probably a strong guy no denying it
     
  14. Surrix

    Surrix Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Foreman is nice guy ;)and he doesn't s******** on boxers he had fought or sparred as far as I do know.
    Again, Norton did not kept his hands like Liston when he closed distance vs Ali.
    Liston of course was very athletic and strong for 220 lbs boxer, had good hooks and jabs.

    This today doesn't means that he might beat for example Okolie or Lerena, not alone Dorticos or HW boxers.

    Ofc in old times grass was greener, people better and this despite their hands positions.
    Ali had fought a lot of lads who underestimated his speed and were with hands too low when he closed distance.

    Norton was more close stylistically to modern boxers than Liston.

    I do know that boxer's origin is main point to value him on forums and people never will admit this one thing.
    Also about name value.

    If Norton was in Klitshko or Lewis size or Vitali size, he definitely was even more effective in fight with 31 y.o Ali.

    Also boxers prime for forum posters is depending from boxers origin: 39 years 8 months old Wlad is in his prime and 31 y.o Ali might be over the hill and out of prime.
    Dual standards are bad for boxer's evaluation.
    While I think Wlad and Lewis and Vitaly in their prime had equal chances not to allow Ali travel till holy cards as tickets seller.
     
  15. IntentionalBrit

    IntentionalBrit New Member Full Member

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    If Wladimir is fighting- certainly not the fans