Wladimir Klitschkos Legacy

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by heizenberg, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    You guys are going round in circles arguing about form rather than substance imho.

    I'll state my position clearly: Vitali > Byrd and Povetkin if I had to pick them in a fight.

    Resumes ... yeah, you can argue about that.
     
  2. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    This was the quote and context is important. This was a contrast of Vitali/Lewis vs Wlad/Byrd I and Wlad/Povetkin as marquee wins..not all time great HW ratings.

    "I would argue Byrd and Povetkin as "marquee wins" but I won't argue them as all time great heavyweights if that's what you would expect me to do to defend that stance. I rate both these men over or on the level of Vitali Klitschko and he's considered to be a "marquee win" for Lennox Lewis."

    I understand the wording there is a little confusing and you asked for clarification, which i GAVE!

    Good ****ing grief.
     
  3. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Why don't we list the top ten or so wins for each fighter and stack them up?

    That should tell us something.
     
  4. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    H2H, I don't have a position.

    Resumes. I have them on the level.
     
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    :buenrollo:

    Then we disagree. I can't see on what basis you can exclude him from the top 10.
     
  6. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    That's a clear position.
     
  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No marquee win. Not having avenged all his defeats. Not having faced his number 1 competitive rival for four years straight. And I haven't even started on the resume.

    So there's plenty of basis to exclude him.
     
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    He's been an institution at the very top for over a decade. Ducked nobody. Has one of the best resumes around :deal:
     
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  9. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Vit top 10 ish wins
    Peter
    Sanders
    Adamek
    Johnson
    Hide
    Arreola
    Gomez
    Solis
    Donald( most completely dominated)
    Top 25ish
    Charr
    Briggs
    Sosnowski
    Johnson
    Williams
    Purrity
    Bean

    Losses:
    Fluky loss to Byrd that still showed him as the better fighter
    Loss on cuts to Lewis in an ATG fight that created one of the great debates in boxing history

    Byrd top 10 ish wins
    Shot Holyfield
    Tua
    Fluky Vit win
    McCline
    Top 25ish
    Williamson
    Oquendo
    Harris
    Draw to Golata
    Purrity
    Castillo

    Losses
    Wlad (2)
    Ike
    Pov
    Draw with Golata
    None really even that close

    Sasha top 10ish
    Takam
    Chagaev
    Chambers
    Shot Byrd (most close fights)

    Top 25ish wins
    Duhaupas (roids)
    Wach
    Perez
    Charr
    Huck(controversial)
    Estrada
    Donald

    Losses: Wiped out by Wlad

    Sasha comes closer in raw wins than Byrd, but he got wiped out against the best, and unlike Vitali struggled in many of his wins. It's really apples and oranges.

    Cobras type of revisionism could be applied in many different places. You can make a similar argument that Norton is better than Frazier on resume. They both got a win over Ali, and you could strain to argue Norton's comp was better. But it ignores the broader context, and is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt argument.
     
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  10. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Still arguing over trivialities that o already dealt with? Lol!
     
  11. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    In other words, you are backtracking. Either way, if you are abandoning your position that they are above Vit, having them on the same level is "on a level" with that for it's stupidity
     
  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Cobra trolling his way out of a corner again and restoring to tedious platitudes he seems to think make him some sort of winner. The guy is a pure joke

    Andrew and ManMachine get on hassle -free with the rest of the forum. MongGoose you're incompatible with real people , go and get perma booted again.
     
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  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't dispute his longevity

    He did. His number 1 competitive rival - for four years. (There were understandable reasons but that doesn't change the fact that this happened)


    Debatable.

    He has no marquee win and, for whatever reason, he failed to rematch Sanders, who handed him his most unflattering defeat.
     
  14. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Clear, but bad. Sanders and Peter are arguably "at the level" of Saha and Byrd. There is more of an argument there than there is to compare them to Vit. In fact, I think that will be my next post.
     
  15. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    He ducked a rematch with Corrie Sanders.