wladimir vs haye. post your thoughts.

He doesnt tire because he fights a load of overweight guys, that call their selves athletes, he throws his straight jab 4 12 rnds, against guys with little to no lateral movement, i reckon you could train someone in 2 weeks 2 plod around a ring, pawing the old 1,2 (granted its a powerful 1, 2 ), againts an opponent that is **** scared to throw back, you dont actually need that much stamina 2 do that which is probably why he doesnt tire, as has been said its more the lack in quality of opponents, rather than the quality of the klits, haye, as much as it pains inparticular the americans 2 admit it, is by far and away above the standard of any other heavyweight out there, bar the klits whuch remains 2 be seen, in my opinion i think he will beat wlad and vitali, but thats just my opinion

 

He pulled out of the Wlad fight for 2 reasons. The first was a back injury, which probably wasn't bad enough on its own to stop him fighting but was a legit injury. The second reason was that Setanta went bust which meant that Haye would have been fighting for literally nothing. The Klits weren't offering him any TV money other than UK TV money, and with Setanta going bust that meant no payday for Haye. The injury gave him an excuse to get out of it and he took it. He wasn't scared, he just didn't fancy fighting the number 1 heavy for literally no money. People are very critical of him for this as though he should have just stepped up to heavy and taken on the best right away. Well, it took Holyfield until his 7th fight at heavy to fight for a world title. Don't hear much criticism relating to that. It's still very early in his heavyweight career, he will fight the Klits assuming that THEY are willing and are prepared to offer reasonable terms (i.e. not wanting options on his next THREE fights, which is what they demanded last year).

Also, the way he fought against Valuev was the way he needed to fight. It was nothing to do with being scared. If he stood in close he gave Valuev a chance to use his bulk to his advantage by clinching, leaning etc. He also knew that Valuev has never really been hurt and so going for the stoppage would be madness. He stayed on the outside and prevented Valuev from landing anything of note for 12 rounds whilst landing his own pot shots at a very good accuracy rate. Not exciting, but not really any worse than another Wlad jab-fest. He'll fight very differently against Wlad, who he knows can be hurt. Haye can fight a number of different ways and usually comes up with a winning game plan. He's not one-dimensional like the Klits, and he will have seen the holes in Wlad's game that can be exploited. Whether he can actually pull it off, we'll have to wait and see.

 

Haye is self-promoted, he chooses who he fights. Goldenboy merely promote him in the US but they have no real veto over opponents. Haye will fight the Klits as soon as possible after Ruiz is out of the way. If you'd seen the terms the Klits were offering to Haye then you would be questioning whether they really wanted the fight, not him.

As for Chambers, he is flat-footed by and large. He has reasonably quick hands but the way he fought last night wasn't untypical by any stretch. He often sits on the ropes like that, but countering a guy who you're no quicker than and who is bigger than you is difficult hence why he was so crap last night. He was also crap against Povetkin. He is not comparable to Haye at all, who will actually move a bit from side to side and use feints.

 

Wladimir has to be the favourite but Haye has a small chance.

I think the worst thing Haye could do would be to try to replicate his Valuev strategy. If he is tentative and keeps his distance he will get picked off by Wlad's jab like all the other contenders.

However, Haye has got both SPEED and POWER - a combination Wlad's opponents have lacked. Haye has to have confidence in his abilities and believe he can win - most of Wlad's opponents are too scared, don't back themselves and surrender the initiative. Haye should come out aggressively to stop Wlad getting into his rhythm. Then we shall see if Wlad can deal with being put under pressure. If Haye lands a couple of bombs it could get very interesting very quickly and Haye could win it.

Of course there is a very real danger that Haye coming forward allows Wlad to KO him early but it's a risk Haye has to take if he wants to win. The longer the fight goes on the less chance Haye has. Look at how Chambers slowed down as the fight went on and Wlad just got more and more comfortable. That could easily happen to Haye. Most Klitschko opponents are more focused on surviving than winning. If Haye wants to win he has to put it all on the line. Even if he gets blown out in the first round it's better than being ground down to a dull late stoppage.

At the end of the day Wlad is very hard to beat because he is so big and so good at using his size. Haye does have some chance though so I look forward to seeing how it goes down.

 

Agreed! :yep

 

I'd give Haye maybe one chance in five, or 20%.

I can't see Haye out-pointing Klitschko -- that jab is just too much of a points-accumulator -- he's going to have to knock him out.

Can he knock him out? Yes; he certainly can. He's got the power and Wlad hasn't got the greatest chin. But, to knock him out, he's going to have to get in range, and getting in range means putting yourself in the line of that jab and that right cross; and Haye's not reknowned for the stoutness of his chin, either.

Haye's got better movement than Chambers, is a bit taller, carries more power, and can read a punch very well, so perhaps he doesn't get caught quite so often. OTOH, Wlad's not a slow puncher (not like Valuev, anyway), so Haye's going to have to be careful.

The trouble I have with assessing this fight is gauging when the right time would be for Haye to make his move. At some point, he's going to have to gamble on getting in range in order to land a bomb.

What's happened with most people who've gone up against Wlad is that they've tried to start positively, then eaten a big shot, then spent the rest of the fight waiting for an opportunity to present itself in order to attack. The trouble with that is that Wlad's typically too careful to just give out opportunities; you've got to force him to make a mistake, and the longer you wait the more that metronomic jab is working away at you and sapping your stamina.

So: You could wait for him to tire out a bit before making your move; keep moving and feinting; try to land mid-power shots from range, hoping to make him expend energy dealing with that. The trouble with that is that you'll be getting tired yourself and, if you're a bit chinny like Haye, you might be increasing the probability that Wlad lands on you as much as you're increasing the probability that you land on him.

An alternative might be to just say "**** it" and go all Hagler-Hearns on him straight from the opening bell. If you're going to get KO'd, you may as well get KO'd in the middle of an all-out war rather than at the end of a sustained 36-minute beatdown a la Chambers, and you might have evened-up the odds to give yourself a bigger chance than you otherwise might have trying to wait it out from distance. Haye can war; we've seen it before with Enzo and Mormeck (in patches), but I'm not sure he'd do it with Wlad; he might be more likely to try the Valuev strategy, which would be a bad idea, IMO, as he only just dodged some of Valuev's (ponderously slow) punches, and Wlad punches a fair bit faster.

Or do you go somewhere in the middle, maybe around rounds four to six? That might catch Wlad completely unawares if you were being cautious and gun-shy for the first four rounds and then went all-out. The catch with that plan is that it assumes you make it to that point without eating something that'll take the fight out of you.

I'd be tempted to go for the WAR strategy, but it'd have to be a controlled thing, you couldn't just lose your head and go charging-in in a kamikaze fashion as you'd get picked-off too easily. Easier said than done, though.

Has Haye got the skill and the judgement to pull that off? Yes, but the odds are mostly against him, IMO.

 

Do you really think he would have lasted 12 rounds with Haye? No chance.

Haye V Wladimir, Haye would win by KO, but I wouldn't say 2 rounds though, I see Haye starting off the flight slow and working Wlad out then stepping up a gear after 4 rounds.

 

Haye is not as fast as Eddie. With 220+ lbs less than ever!
And besides that he is aware of his chin. I think he would not eat as much as Chambers did.

 

Haye working Wlad out? Are you nuts? Wlad went several times 13rds + in sparring.
Haye is the one famous for gassing out.

 

one of the best fights out there at HW. hope it happens, I have a feeling it wont.

 

Way too much is made of Wlad's jab; it is not technically that special. He tends to push with it more than snap. If you want to see a proper jab take a look at Holmes against Cooney.

Everyone makes the mistake of basing their assessment of Wlad on how easily he is despatching the current opposition but the fact is they are little more than journeymen whom he should beat easily.

How can anyone forget him flopping around against Brewster, Purrity and Sanders?

Against Haye he will be fighting someone who can slip, move and punch............very hard. He is in big trouble, I agree that he will get KTFO early, maybe 2 or 3.
:hat:hat:hat:hat

 

The fight HAS to happen. It's going to be massive. If either Klit really wants the fight they have to give Haye a decent share. Give him the UK ppv, share of the gate and a share of the US ppv and the fight will happen. Offering him 400,000 is not acceptable now.

 

Wut?

Seriously, what does Wlad's stamina have to do with whether or not Haye can work him out?

 

Haye will find it difficult to get inside, and we all know Wlad will be as cautious as hell. He's going to have to risk taking some heavy shots to land some of his own. I think it'll be very close, could be very exciting or very boring

 

60/40 in Wlad's favour i reckon, Haye's obviously got the power to hurt him, but i believe Wlad will survive and recuperate if does go down.
Then eventually, Wlad will wear Haye down through his high workrate and fast handspeed. The size difference is gonna be too much even for Haye to overcome, Wlad matches up with Haye in every department. I'd take a good superheavyweight over a good heavyweight any day of the week...