Would James Toney or Valuev win a round vs Vitlai?

Agree

 

Read my post again:

Henry Maske and DM where big at LHW when Toney was fighting at LHW too. That is correct. What I wrote is that Toney was always struggling at LHW, and he was inactive for over a year during that time - these were Toneys so-called 'black years'. The only bigger fights he had at LHW were with Montell Griffin, and he got robbed both times. I remember Toney was positive for a fight with Henry Maske in Germany, but he just wasn't a top contender, he couldn't get a shot at the title and nobody was interested in him. Same thing with DM, who fought Drake Thadzi - Toney was just struggling and many had written him off after the Thadzi debacle, you know the story.
At CW Vassily Jirov was the man from 2001-2003, when Toney was getting back on track. Jirov is european, true, but he fought out of the US. So it's only logical that they fought in the US and not in Europe. And who exactly were these european CWs that offered big purses at that time? Johnny Nelson? Jean-Marc Mormeck? Tiozzo? All of them inferior to Jirov. And none of them lucrative fights.

About his career at HW, Toney could maybe have had some good fights in Europe but he is not a big name there and would have probably got robbed anyways. I can understand why he preffered fighting in the US then, even if he got robbed there too (Peter I, Rahman II). In conclusion, I wanna say that Toney wanted a fight with Haye recently, in London, Hayes backyard, and that Haye turned him down.

 

finally got some more time to read thru your post now:

-in the time frame you quoted -the last 14 years - Toney never fought at SMW. His last fight at SMW was in 1994, the loss to RJJ, as you said. But why did you then criticize him in your other post for not fighting european fighters at SMW/168lbs when he wasn't even fighting at SMW in that time frame you specify? That's not coherent...

-also, as you said, Toney was never a real contender at LHW, he wanted to travel to Europe to face the belt-holders - at least Maske, but since he wasn't a contender nobody was interested in him and that's why these fights didn't come off. Thadzi got the fight with DM instead, and Toney had to fight in parking lots!

-third thing, as you know Monaco is a sovereign state in southern France very close to Italy. He was fighting an italian, correct, so it was in his opponents backyard, or at least very close to it. It doesn't make a difference if Monaco is a poor or a rich state since much of the crowd were probably 'poor' italians anyway rooting for their countryman.

 

i did not critisize him for not fighting super middleweights, i pointed out that all through his career he had opposition in europe at the weights he fought in when he fought in them from 160 to 200 plus

again you change my words from
toney was a contender as i posted to

toney was not a contender as you posted quoting me.



toney fighting an italian in monaco is the same as toney fighting a mexican in canada.

 

Bottom line is, Toney wasn't a contender, at least not at LHW and during much of his career at CW either. The two Griffin robberies are the cause for this, and the Drake Thadzi debacle. Toney wasn't a contender, he had to fight bums in parking lots! Nobody gave a **** about him anymore and all but his hardcore fans lost interest. People had written him off. That's why Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin got to fight DM, and not Toney. No matter if Toney wanted these fights or not (and he wanted to fight Henry Maske at least, and in Germany too) he wouldn't have gotten these fights.

And no, Toney fighting an italian in Monaco is not like fighting a mexican in Canada, it's more like fighting a mexican in California.

 

Win a couple of rounds and go the distance.

 

california can be used as a good anology

beverley hills is about the same size as monaco ( 5 mile approx)
beverley hills has the same population as monaco (30,000 approx)
beverely hills is the american equivelent of monaco for wealth of population they are both populated by 29,000 multi millionaire`s 999 millionairs and 1 tramp who wears prada and armani suits with gucci shoes.

 

Toney wouldn't SURVIVE a round. (Peter put him on his arse)

Valuev might actually win a rnd but not the fight.

 

Toney was with Goossen, he wasn't with King. Bottom line you don't seem to know what the hell you're talking about, this offer wasn't just thrown to the "media" it was made public with videos available as well which Toney's team didn't even respond to, it was a public offer which everyone heard about and went straight to Toney's team who later had to respond by saying Toney isn't "read" and wants more money as he was coming off the illegal substances that could still be in his system.

 

Act like ViTKLiT would win all you want, that's fair.

...but to suggest Toney would fear him...???

Many would argue that Toney is too stupid to be scared...I would personally use a different word besides stupid.

 

to me it seems valuev needs the size advantage more than vitaly. valuev is a sloth with a 'good' jab and 'good' work rate (all given his size) which is very effective against much smaller hw's who aren't exactly world beaters. how many smaller guys have had success against valuev? a few and chagaev and arguably a couple should have gotten wins. vitaly's size will take whatever advantage valuev ususally has away. vitaly athletecism and skill level appears worlds above valuev which should lead to a vitaly domination. also i doubt vitaly will have his hands as low as often against someone who could actually punch him (unlike vs peter)

toney could at least present opportunities for vitaly to dislocate a shoulder or injure himself, but it's hard to see toney otherwise troubling vitaly

 

Toney is the only legend and ATG in the HW game.

He wanted his 50-50 because of this fact.

Let's not ignore all of the facts...

 

Chump change?, Toney was offered a career high pay-day, he was offered money to fight Vitali that he hasn't been offered YET. What's not attractive about that apart from getting his ass handed to him?, he knew it was a fight he wasn't going to win so he resorted to trash talking and fooling a bunch of idiots that will believe the rubbish he says. The deal WAS serious and THEY turned it down, there's no need to live in denial about it.

Sorry but Vitali is not Sam Peter and I think we know that very well. The height, reach, size and strength advantage will be too much for Toney, his shoulder rolling tactics will do him nothing in this one. If you can find anything in your system to justify Toney not taking this fight apart from knowing he will get his ass handed to him then you're fooling yourself. Toney talked trash about BOTH Klitschkos in EVERY single interview, boxing related or not he would mention them with insults, especially Vitali. Yet when Toney's name is hit HARD with the steroid use Vitali approaches him with the best offer out there, Toney was already pissed off according to people because he was banned from fighting for the WBA and was suspended, yet all of a sudden the BEST offer out there for the HIGHEST amount of money goes to his house for FREE, Vitali wasn't going to gain NOTHING from beating this guy, NOTHING. Why turn it down?, trying to invent excuses to make Toney look good is stupid, everyone knew why back then and the Toney fans didn't bother to discuss it.

Bottom line is, the offer was sent and Toney turned it down. No one knew nothing about another injury stopping it. Toney's trash talking about Vitali wasn't only related to his injuries, it was far before that, actually started since Lewis/Vitali yet when Klitschko responds OFFICIALLY and SERIOUSLY guess where Toney was found?, the buffet table and his fans are ridiculously backing him up for it when it's OBVIOUS he ran away from it.

 

This fact is pure bull****. Toney was a nobody at that point, coming off a NC to Ruiz with absolutely nothing to offer for Vitali. By beating him Vitali wasn't going to gain bull****, not even a title and was going to beat a man coming off desperate steroid cheatings to beat Ruiz.

**** NO he's not worth 50/50.

 

Desperately needed anything...???

You make it sound like his home was going to be foreclosed on...:rofl

Toney hasn't been in that position, where he has no options. If the fact that he was soon in a WBC eliminator doesn't prove it for you, I don't know what to say.

He made it clear why he didn't fight them, and never changed his position.

I remember your boy Lil' Floyd also turning down a career high payday...:nono