Would you consider Ali an embarrassment to boxing after manilla

I think they met in 1973 before the first Bugner fight.

I don't think they were talking before Elvis died.

Elvis wasn't sweeping any legs in 1977.

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IMO? Greatest HW of all time; never saw that 67-70 Ali.
IMO? After Zaire, he held all the cards and some of his "defenses" were not worthy of even taking a paycheck for the nonsense! Oh, he still had his diminishing skills, great chin, and intimidation but IMHO "The Greatest" might still be alive if he'd retired years earlier.

 

but then he wouldnt be the greatest aha.

 

Yes, I forgot. What did they fall out over, I know there were rumours Elvis was racist and a staunch republican.

 

No.

This is an embarrassment to boxing

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His later health issues were an embarrassment to boxing in that it exposed the sad reality of what happens to far too many fighters later in life. It showed that then even the best fighters are often doomed to that fate.

 

That same embarrassment who had Shavers on ***** Street at the final bell and would have stopped him if the fight had gone on a few seconds more.

 

Think its pretty clear now looking back that Ali should have gone Long before. But between his ego and his hundred s of hangers on urging him to carry on ,then it's no wonder he did stay. But he was a grown man so he made his choices to stick around. And let's face it ,he actually carried on winning until spinks ,so in his mind he justified it .

 

"Bingo!!!"

 

An embarrassment would be too strong a word. I mean this is Muhammad Ali we're talking about. I would have preferred if he retired and stayed retired after the Shavers fight. Ferdie Pacheco advised him to retire, and left his camp after that fight. He sent letters to Ali, Angelo, Herbert Muhammad, as to why Ali needs to retire. Ali had 4 more fights and lost 3 of them, especially being crucified by Larry Holmes.

 

Ali fighting and losing to Spinks in a title fight was somewhat embarrassing since Spinks was an raw rookie and had no business getting a title shot.

 

That whole Spinks affair is an entire story in itself. Ali was supposed to fight Norton again, supposedly in Rio de Janeiro, for an impossible $12 million dollars. Ali stalled knewing he was never going to get 12 million, the Spinks fight was supposed to be a tuneup for Ali vs Norton 4. IMO, Ali was smart he threw the fight against a novice knowing he would get a rematch, and Ken Norton would be off his radar screen for good. Spinks didn't even deserve a title shot, the best fighter he fought was Ledoux and he only got a draw.

 

Interesting theory.

As recall it, Ali more or less gave away the first half of the fight to Spinks and then appeared to rally, with most considering he'd done so too late. That's one way of throwing a fight, I suppose, but a loss wasn't guaranteed by that alone.

 

I think the cut off point is the Norton rubber rather than Manilla, if anything. People like to foucus on Inoki, Coopman etc in 1976, but for me the main thing is that he took on his two best contenders in Young and Norton during that year. That doesn't happen too frequently, actually.

But after Norton III it was obvious he didn't give much of crap anymore. Shavers was a decent opponent and Ali showed a great winning instinct in that one, but a return with Foreman, Young or Norton would all have been more worthy fights. And, sure, 1978 saw him win the title for an unprecedented third time, but it was only after losing it to someone who didn't have any business sharing a ring with the champ.

In summary; facing Young, Norton and Shavers during his last 2,5 years as a champ isn't an embarassement to boxing imo, but the last 1,5 years of his reign wasn't very impressive, especially since he had some controversial decisions to clear up.

The Holmes and Berbick fights were sad rather than embarassing.

 

Ali himself said he didn't remember many rounds after the second.