well you have simplified it done there. I dont think defensive artists are made they are born. I say defence is 30% learnt skill 70% instinct. Im not comparing myself to these greats, but when i get in my full defence in sparring and fights i basically shut off and let my body take over. Thats why i have so much respect for these guys as its one wrong move and your on the end of a right hand haymaker. I think the best example for this instinctive defence is Duran, look at the way he comes forward slipping shots its pure bueaty
This already perhaps one of my favorite threads of all time....it keeps getting better. Sweetpea is right about how varied the sport of boxing is, even how varied the topic of the defensive masters and their techniques...this is the real art in the art of boxing...and why I've been a fan of it for so many years. And GPater is right as well in that Emile Griffith is in another almost equally fascinating category...that of master mechanic, or technician, as opposed to "defensive genius", and though he didn't exactly excel in any single category, he was so good in so many things and was so versatile that he could be successful as the "controlled and measured slugger" against Archer and Benvenuti, and the "clever and effective boxer/counterpuncher" against Dick Tiger...in other words, he adapted against whatever style he faced, win or lose, with intelligence. He was the thrilling ko puncher in that tragic bout with Paret, and then morphed into a rather dull at times, adaptable mechanic, who accomodated himself to whatever style he was up against and generally was content for a decision win whatever the case.
Any time a discussion comes up about Willie Pastrano, I'm ready...he's one of my favorites,,and his buddy Ralph Dupas is growing on me as well. In fact, the Pastrano-Harold Johnson fight...and this says something about my tastes, and I know I'm not alone in this particular thread..is a fascinating, kind of obscure gem of a fight too me...two subtly different class "A" defensive artists whose fight generated much controversy amongst those who appreciated them...and was a complete bore to those whose tastes seemed to run in the opposite direction...of crude, all action slugging matches..ah, but thats the beauty of boxing, and as Sweet Pea observed, the variety of this sport, where you can have Gatti type fans, and fans of the Pastrano's, Johnson's, Pep's, Locches, Benitez', etc. And by the way, thanks for including THIS ghem of a fight...of Ortiz and Locche, which I've never, until now seen at all.
Yeh this is a good thread. I like your short anaylisis he did eveything excellant but nothing spectacular which mnay find dull as they like a fighter to be categorised like the big puncher as the brawler, the speedster as the boxer etc.. But Emile was all of them a General Purpose boxer and the best example of it also. I've never seen Pastrano vs Johnson but i have it on DVD ill wathc it today. I think ill enjoy it from what you said. Also no problem about the Locche - Ortiz fight. I have afew other Locche fights im going to upload also
I'd have to agree that we are talking about instinct to a large extent, which you would think is inborn, the capacity for that mindset or approach. One definition for courage is, "Grace under pressure," and if you can keep your cool while dodging bombs I'd think that would qualify. This is most true for defensive masters like Pep, Whitaker and Nicolino. 'Course, we are all born with innate aptitudes, what we do with them is all the difference. Even Willie Pep had to spend some time developing his skills, though it might be especially telling here that our own John Garfield, a guy that watched Pep train and knew him on a firsthand basis, has posted here that Pep was as natural as he's seen in there. Spent more time at the track and the watering holes than he did the gym.
definitly, of course he had to learn the skills but it was easier for him than others because of the instincts, he had to learn how to use them. I think after he became so skilled in them he fought so regulary he was sharp and fit by doing so Interestingly today in sparring i had to take controll of a ring without throwing a punch or getting hit clean, so i let instinct take over and was slipping and sliding out the way and won the challenge against a good boxer. That would be an example in finding how to use instinct as you would build it up to leanr how to do it in a fight while throwing shots.
was brillaint fun, i was in my element. The guy was taller and stronger than me so i tried getting inside pushing against him and moving so he fell foward from where i was leaning. That didnt work though so i made him miss a heap and just used Ring Generalship to get him to move back. Very hard stuff.
I think you mentioned that you have a fight coming up. Do you know anything about the guy you're gonna face?
Ill find out on fight night. In the ams you find out on the night most o fthe time what the guys like unless you have seen him box or boxed him before (i was fought aguy twice in a week :shock Since its my club doing the show i might find out earlier and perhaps even boxed the guy before. But im prepared for all styles and anyway i should be forcing my styles on other guys anyway
Awesome stuff GreatA :good I especially liked the Roberto Duran segment. If you are planning to make a part 3, I suggest adding Miguel Lora, Hilario Zapata, Miguel Canto and Marlon Starling.
BRAVO!!! GREAT, GREATA ... :happy Thanks for putting these together. Beautiful! Liked the music too. I've only watched the first one so far, and Pep and Whitaker really stand out for me. Notice how they both had impeccable timing ... as soon as their guy was just about set, that was their signal to move and screw up the rhythm ... the best laid plans of mice and men...