Your Hottest Takes:

realest comment on this thread

 

Of the arguments either of us has made, this one probably comes closest to having an objective answer. With Eyeonthering no more, the best I could do was check the YouTube comments of the Toney-Johnson video that had the most views. 24,000 doesn't seem like a lot, but I guess that even on YouTube Sweet Reggie still isn't much of a draw. Of the 73 total comments, here are the ones that indicate some kind of opinion on who won (and not counting multiple comments from the same person):

"hands down toney got beat up in this fight"

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"Reggie was way ahead. James gives guys like Cryin' Mike and Iran credit all the time but doesn't give guys like Reggie and Roy who out boxed him no credit. Reggie was up 4 points after 3. 4 points after 4. James did nothing to make up 4 points and win on points."

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"Reggie spoke to me about this match. He feels he won no question. I'll need to view the fight multiple times to grasp it! Both fought utterly fantastic."

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"A second "gift" for Toney, who was also the recipient of the worst crooked decision in boxing history against Tiberi."

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"Because of the 10-8. 2nd rd. I thought the fight was dead even going into the 12th and for those 3 minutes Toney fought like he wanted it more. Johnson was too conservative late in the bout, never trying to be first even when Toney was badly cut."

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"Remember thz fight, Reggie won. Tony lost,"

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"Reggie Johnson should have been awarded the win."

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"johnson didnt last long.not in a championship caliber."

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"****in robbery"

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"I am a longtime fan of James Toney, but I must admit that he lost this fight! 115-112 in favor of Johnson. I don't know what fight the judges watched, but I watched the fight four times and every time I was convinced that Tony lost."

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"Toney won hands down and would have beaten Roy Jones jr on this night"

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"I think toney nicked it johnson is a hell of a fighter but you got to take the title not given it"

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"Johnson got robbed"

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"Reggie made James look bad"

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"Reggie won this fight by 1 or 2 rounds imo. Best Tony should of got was a draw. I had Johnson 4 rounds up after 3 rounds because of the knockdown. Toney did come back mid fight but I had Johnson winning atleast 2 of the last 3 rounds also. He certainly didn't lose this fight."

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"I actually think that after Johnson won the first three rounds, including the two point round, Toney won all remaining 9, albeit a few of them were very close. Toney landed at least one big punch in all of those rounds that had Johnson off balance."

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"9:53 Lmfaoooooooooo Stupid ass commentator said 'Tommy Sterns'"

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"Really frustrating fight to watch. After the first three rounds, it was Johnson's to lose and lose it he did."

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"Johnson was robbed of the fight, no way Toney won"

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"I have no idea how one judge had this 115-112 Toney. That's a bit insulting."

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"Reggie Johnson won that fight too fast to slick made Toney look awkward"

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"115 - 112 Johnson - he won by two rounds by two points plus an additional point in Round 2 with that knockdown. I was there and Toney was booed right out of the ballroom when he left."

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"I watched it live Toney got beat"

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"114-113 Toney"

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"Same as I have it"

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I guess that Wladimir Kiltschko is a top 5 heavyweight of all time and that the heavyweight era since at least 2015 has been very exciting and has had many competitive fights yet many people are so down on it.

My takes generally tend to be fairly basic don't think I have many hot takes. Perhaps watching a lot more boxing will bring out some more out of me.

 

Or we can go on boxingrec and see what the average scorecard is which is what I based the general take on the fight is what do you know they have it 115-114 for Toney https://boxrec.com/en/scoring/5320. Plus watching it myself it was clear Toney won most of the later rounds landing the cleaner heavier blows hence why I don't think its really that controversial.

 

I'll try my best :

- Prime Kovalev is one of the best H2H LHWs ever. Even the greatest at the weight would have major issues with him.

- There are less steroids cheats / less extensive cheating now than in the 90s (Roid Jones and Evan Fields, anyone?).

- Tyson beats Liston (seems to be a hot take here apparently).

- To add to that, Tyson has now gone full circle and become underrated H2H.

- Jofre would never beat Harada no matter how prime or comfortable at the weight he was.

- Hasegawa over Sahaphrom > Inoue over Donaire.

- Golovkin never actually beat Canelo convincingly.

- Giardello beats Hagler.

- Primo was actually sort of alright.

 

I'm not sure about the quality of the current era (wouldn't rate it highly personally imo) but the bouts have definitely been good lately. I'm enjoying it.

 

Pardon me but what is a feat of power? and why are Robinson's better than GGG'S?

 

Basically a showcase of one's punching power. Nothing demonstrates it better than cracking an elite chin. And IMO Robinson's one shot stoppage of Fullmer is evidence of him being a superior puncher to GGG. Fullmer's chin was certified granite, a man born to rumble in hard fought affairs and easily endure crazy punishment. He was only dropped once in his career up until that point by an ATG puncher in Eduardo Lausse. Look at that monster of a left hook that Lausse throws at 6:49, and look how easily Fullmer regains his composure after he takes it coming in.

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Then look at how utterly helpless he was after Robinson's own left hook landed.

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The only fighter with a chin of a similar caliber GGG ever faced was Canelo, and he never came close to doing that to him.

 

I posted these thoughts on Ken Norton in another thread, but I think they're appropriate for this 1 as well:

I think Norton gets a bit of a bum rap, especially on this forum.

For starters, I don't believe any fighter that can go a combined 39 rounds w/ Ali & not be floored even once has a "glass chin." let's face it, Ali was a pretty solid hitter.

I also believe Norton visibly showed his age after the 3rd Ali fight, which is much earlier than generally gets acknowledged. In his trilogy w/ Ali, he showed some decent footwork & a versatile attack, but by the time of the Young & Holmes fights, he was reduced to being a flatfooted plodder who relied almost exclusively on his strength & persistence to wear out mobile boxers. By the time of the Shavers fight, he was just a statue & provided no obstacle for Shavers to unload his heavy artillery on him.

Maybe Cooney would've always been too big & powerful for him, but I wouldn't rule out that the Shavers fight could've been a different story if he still had his footwork from the early-mid 70s.

 

Is this even a matter for debate? SRR's KO of Fullmer is a legit candidate for greatest KO ever.

 

Big James beats 70s George Foreman

 

RJJ is overrated, Canelo could take him at 168 and 175

 

The RJJ that beat Toney has Canelo chasing shadows.

Canelo is a brilliant fighter but those feet and RJJ's ability to pot shot from unorthodox angles and flurry hooks and uppercuts and hit with genuine one shot power, not sure how Canelo is going to walk him down and outwork him.