Prime Roy Jones Jr. vs. Artur Beterbiev.

I don't have a grudge against Roy. Contrary to what some on here think I not only don't dislike him I never have. Not even a little bit. In fact, I've always quite liked him and found him very personable and down to earth. I like him as a fighter, a person and a commentator. The only thing I truly dislike about him is his penchant for blood sports and even then he comes across as so personable it's hard for me to even equate him doing something like that.

And I don't need to go and rewatch his fights either. I'm very familiar with his career and not only did I used to have lots of his fights on one of my external hard drive and I've probably watched Roy vs Toney more than Loudon has. I'm talking at least 30 times if not more

There's a bunch of fighters I dislike, a small handful I can't stand, and even less I borderline despise but Roy has never been one of them. If I said I dislike Roy that would make me a liar.

I have a problem with his fanboys (ditto with Clenelo who I also don't genuinely dislike at all) and their inability to even attempt to be fair and how they hold others to a completely different set of standards they do him and in particular in this thread how certain types of fighter they always, almost without fail , pick to lose in these type of hypothetical match up threads and who they obviously consider inferior are somehow completely immune to the agreeing process

And if they lose when they're older or significantly older than ''shot'' 35 y/o Roy and others who they afford the luxury of conveniently becoming shot over night as soon as they do lose they're the first to dismiss them as hype jobs and overrated which they're just itching to do and I can assure you they will be quick to do if and when Beterbiev does lose regardless if he's 37 or 47 y/o

Beterbiev is not the brutish unskilled caveman many think he is and will have you believe he is. I'm not saying he's some freakishly skilled Loma-esque ring genius or even remotely close. What I'm saying is he's more cerebral and skillful than many think and it first appears he is

And at almost 37 years of age (like I said, he turns 37 next month) and after having an extremely extensive amateur career (much of it at a very high/the highest level) fighting with a very aggressive style it comes with a lot of wear and tear on your body, and even more so if you train like a spartan all year round as he's infamous for doing

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'I think what people gotta realize is that, you know they look at my age now of 32 and they don't realize how long I've been doing this since I was 9 years old. That's 22, 23 years.''

--Andre Ward on his 22-23 year long pro career


"People see what I do fight night, they see under the lights, but they don't see the toil, they don't see the grind, they don't see just the pain, the physical pain that you go through, not just in the fights, but to prepare and to get ready for those battles," he said.

"I felt the physicality of the sport, not just in the ring stuff, but the training and the preparation, start to take its toll on me for the last two or three years and I bit down and continued to push through and at this point, it's time and I know it's time."


“I want to be clear — I am leaving because my body can no longer put up with the rigors of the sport and therefore my desire to fight is no longer there,” Ward, 33, said in a statement on his website. “If I cannot give my family, my team, and the fans everything that I have, then I should no longer be fighting.”

“I’ve been boxing for 23 years, and just the cumulative effect of all the training and all the fights, it just starts to wear on you, and it starts to take your desire,” Ward said

David Haye saying he feels his own power diminished with age and that it's not just the fights that take their toll on you and do damage but the training camps do as well

Timestamped

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Froch saying exactly the same - that he knows how he felt at 36 years old

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Ward 120 amateur fights
Haye had 96 amateur fights
Froch had 88 amateur fights

Teofimo Lopez

''I think that he's on his way out. I really do believe that and 135 is just too much of a big weight class for him''

''If you look at the Luke Campbell fight, you can see there is just a lot of wear-and-tear on his body.

“I look at it like this—maybe this whole COVID-19 year helped him out. Maybe he needed it. That way he can probably at least hang in there a little bit with me. It’s going to be a great fight. I just look at the facts. You see a fighter who has gone up in weight class. Sometimes they go up too much where their body isn’t used to it, or the weight class is too big for them.''

“This man has had over 400 fights. I have over 150 fights. I’m 23. I’m going to tell you this, when I get to camp, oh man, my body aches sometimes. If I’m 23 and dealing with stuff at this age, I can only imagine what he must be going through at 32 with over 400 fights.”

I know how freakishly athletically gifted Roy was and he was an amazing fighter but I do think he always had a weak chin and that it would've been exposed a lot sooner had he actually he fought savage punchers and I simply don't buy into some of his fanboy's excuses.

 

Excerpts from a recent interview with Iceman John Scully

IM: After suffering that cut, Beterbiev showed more of his boxing abilities something which you mentioned in our last interview by saying Artur’s not just a puncher.

JS: Right now, you remember his fight against Calum Johnson in Chicago a few years ago. Johnson was strong like him yet he boxed him. Everyone was shocked which is why I said what I said to you. Beterbiev is a well-rounded boxer. If everyone thought that he’s just a boogeyman, I think this past weekend showed otherwise. Marc Ramsay, who’s his head coach, was adamant about Artur setting up his shots. This guy followed his plan to a tee. It was masterful. A lot of guys thought he wouldn’t be able to out box Browne due to his flashy style with that speed and movement. One would think there’s no way Beterbiev can out box Browne. Artur is a professional boxer that’s what he does. He’s not just face first letting his hands go like a lot of guys have a misconception about him.

IM: I think the body shots are what ended that fight

JS: Listen we worked on that. I began working with him in 2015 if not 2016 and that was my whole addition to team Beterbiev. A lot of fighters from Eastern Europe whether it be Russia or Ukraine they weren’t big on body shots. I recall saying to Artur that he could be a tremendous body puncher. That punch that ended this fight is what we worked on so much. Artur was digging into guys in the gym. Marc Ramsay worked on the boxing and I worked on body shots. This fight proves what I told you before this weekend anyone who thinks Beterbiev is just a face first slugger is either very ignorant to boxing or has not paid attention simply not knowing what they are looking at. This fight clearly highlighted that Artur has boxing skills. If one does not see his skills pay more attention.

IM: I think that there’s a few guys out there who need to get their eyes check saying that Beterbiev is a robot.

JS: Those are morons. That’s the problem with the internet. The internet has given everyone a voice. Most everyone is behind a screen therefore everyone is kind of equal. You don’t know if you’re talking to Buddy McGirt or your neighbour down the street who has never ever been in a boxing gym. You don’t know who your talking to yet we all have the same platform. You have to decide who exactly you’re talking to. A lot of us get the same platform. Everyone is on that same message board putting in their input. I had someone on Instagram say that he won’t respect Artur if he were to fight Canelo because it’s just for the money. I was thinking I don’t want to know who this person is. I don’t want to ask who you are and how you came up with that. It’s just too stupid to comment on.


Beterbiev against Marcus Browne, do you think many guys will want to avoid him?

John Scully: They have already been avoiding him! Let me tell you, we had solid sparring but it was difficult getting him sparring partners. There are guys who don’t want to even spar him. There not even as many guys as there were years ago it is what it is. Artur is in an unbelievable position right now. As a light heavyweight, if you want to be that guy you have to fight Beterbiev. [WBA champion Dmitry] Bivol is not going to do that. No disrespect to Bivol and WBO champion] Joe Smith Jr. but anyone who doesn’t think that Artur is that guy at 175 pounds is out of their mind. Smith is the underdog against Beterbiev, but he’s a live underdog because he reminds me of Rocky Balboa in that first movie. He doesn’t know it’s a show, he believes in himself. Smith could be put in a ring against Mike Tyson and he'd be trying to win. I respect him for that. That being said that would probably be his downfall trying to end the fight with Artur because there’s levels to boxing. Arthur is at the top of the food chain. There’s nobody stronger than Artur Beterbiev. I don’t care who you’re talking about. Bivol is a good boxer but so is Artur. I believe that many of us are starting to wake up to that.

IM: I think that all of those fights are good for Beterbiev. Obviously Canelo Alvarez is the best one, but all of those fights are good. Hopefully we can see all of these fights next year.

JS: I think that this fight with Browne is the best thing that could have happened to Beterbiev. Everyone saw especially with the blood, Browne being a good boxer just everything combined. That made for a good performance, it made for a breakthrough performance. Everyone knows a lot more of Artur now. Those fights are good. If Canelo wants to go to the light heavyweight division, there’s nobody but Beterbiev. Canelo would have to fight Beterbiev that’s a fact.

IM: ha. Now let’s get back to Beterbiev who didn’t say much after his win. Did he say anything to you in terms of who he wants next?

JS: Artur is not a big boxing fan. I will bet $100 that he doesn’t even know who Benavidez is. If Benavidez walked up to Beterbiev he would say hello not knowing who David is. Artur doesn’t follow boxing, he doesn’t care. He knows who Canelo is, he would want to fight Canelo. He always says whoever you want me to beat in order to be the best that’s who I want to beat. Right now, it’s Canelo or Bivol.

IM: You just said something that I always wonder about and that’s some fighters saying that they don’t follow boxing that they simply want to fight whoever is put in front of them. Why is that?

JS: I honestly don’t know. All I know is that Artur is extremely family oriented. It’s in his faith, his religion that’s all he’s about. I always remember since myself and Marc Ramsay always talk boxing, we talk about Muhammad Ali, we talk about everything. I recall one time that Marc Ramsay and I were talking boxing at the gym while Artur went to take a shower. Beterbiev finished taking a shower and hears us talking. He told us 'I don’t talk boxing' as he went home. He didn’t want to get into the conversation. Some fighters are just not into it. There are some fighters that are not even fans of boxing, they don’t even know who the lineal champion is.

IM: What motivates Beterbiev if he doesn’t follow boxing?

JS: Artur doesn’t care about guys like, say, Danny Garcia, he just cares about himself. He just cares about fighting the best and he will do that. He will know because he wins, gets his belt and is told that he’s the best. He’s very simply in that regard. He just wants to fight the best guys, that’s his mentality.

IM: I also noticed Beterbiev saying that he doesn’t care much about his WBC title, that he just wants to fight be great that’s all.

JS: As one who doesn’t follow boxing he doesn’t know the title situation like who are the other champions. He will just do what his hear trainer Marc Ramsay tells him. He will fight whomever in order to be the best. Whichever title, he just wants to know which one puts him as the best. It’s easy to work with him because we don’t have to explain a lot to him.

 

I don't have a problem with anyone picking Roy. You're a fair poster and you call it how you see it

 

The sane: ''Roy had a weak chin''

Roy fans: ''No he didn't''

The sane: ''Oh really? How so?''

Roy fans: ''Here's a video of him getting hit''

 

Again, I don't have a problem with people picking Roy and it's not like I'm even arguing Beterbiev wins. All I'm saying he can win, but the Roy fanatics think Roy is literally Superman and that he cannot lose whereas I see every fighter as being beatable. Styles make fights and great fighters can be beaten by great fighters on any given night and even merely good/very good ones can beat greats too sometimes

I see this too and unlike most on here I've been following a lot of these guys since the amateurs, going right back to 2008.

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Yes it is all hypothetical and none of us truly know how these fights are going to play out. Even those who are so sure they do get predictions wrong all the time. Hence why I generally try to avoid these type of threads and don't post in the Classic despite always having enjoyed reading about the greats of yesteryear. And like I said, the picks of many who do post in these type of threads always seem to go in one direction.

 

Roy said SMW/LHW and not a big LHW at that Merqui Sosa was the hardest puncher he ever fought not any of the CWs who knocked him out or HW John Ruiz

''Merqui missed me with a shot that almost buckled my knees. If that had landed it would have been different. I was like, ‘Wow, this guy’s trying to kill you!’ I went to work on him after that and got the fight over. Tarver had good punching power, but he didn’t punch harder than Merqui Sosa''

And that Jorge Castro the toughest and I remember seeing him say that Castro gave him his hardest fight in another interview too

BM: You don't seem to have had that difficult a route to the top. But who is the toughest opponent you've fought, or who is the opponent you have learned most from?

RJ: Jorge Castro from Argentina, because he was so strong, you could hit him with everything but he didn't stop, and he stayed just as strong for the entire fight. I had to box him and use my head, and not get caught up in his tactics. I had to be very mature at a young age. He had previously knocked a lot of people out, he beat a lot of people by playing games, because he was one of the smartest guys I ever fought.''

FTR, pressure fighter Castro was a pudgy blown up 154 pounder who only trained on public holidays and lived in a skip. Concrete beard though


Oleksandr Usyk

Q: Oleksandr, you won most everything as an amateur, including the gold at the 2012 Olympics. Who would you say gave you your hardest fight as an amateur?

Oleksandr Usyk: “Well, all those fights, they all took place within the last couple of years or so, so it’s hard to say. Maybe, if I was pushed to say, it was Artur Beterbiev of Russia who gave me my roughest fight. He is very aggressive and he does hit very hard.”

Beterbiev weighed 185-187lbs back then and never blows up past 191lbs even when not in camp now

Usyk fought at HW and SHW in the WSB against 230-277lb giants